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Topic: WONDER WOMAN movie - SPOILERS start Pg. 3 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Sam Houston
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I saw it for the first time yesterday. I am a Marvel fan and, more so, a Marvel Studios fan, so for me to say that I enjoyed this movie is a great accomplishment. My favorite parts of the movie:

-the actress playing the child version of Diana was great! There was such a spark of life in her eye!
-Gal as Wonder Woman. Like many others I was not happy with her casting (based mainly on her visual appearance compared to the more "healthier" version of WW we are used to), BUT she did a wonderful job and brought the essence of the character to life.
-Etta Candy!
-Steve's sacrifice. Not that I was glad to see him die, but I was glad to see the character grow and develop in seeing the meaning of love and sacrifice.
-The realization of something that was so apparent, but not obvious (at least for me)...Diana and Aries being 1/2 brother and sister (sort of like when it was put in your face about Clark and Bruce's mothers having the first same name which has been in the comics for years, but now putting 2 and 2 together).

I just wish the studios could pretend that Man of Steel and B vs S did not occur and start now with WW's movie as the beginning.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

JB>>You're writing the movie.<<

Ha!  So I am.  
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Gal as Wonder Woman. Like many others I was not happy with her casting…

••

Yours is the first complaint I have seen. Where are these "many others" to be found?

++

Steve's sacrifice. Not that I was glad to see him die, but I was glad to see the character grow and develop in seeing the meaning of love and sacrifice.

••

Two points there: since Steve was an agent operating behind enemy lines, which is a dangerous job by any definition, it seems hard to imagine "love and sacrifice" were alien to him.

Second, and more important, his "sacrifice" was straight out of EDWARD SCISSORHANDS -- it happened not because of any internal logic of the plot, but because the writers wanted it to happen. Establishing that Steve is going to blow up the gas canisters simply by SHOOTING into one of them, why could this not be done while the plane was on the ground? Why did anyone have to make a "sacrifice"?

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Thom Price
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Establishing that Steve is going to blow up the gas canisters simply by SHOOTING into one of them, why could this not be done while the plane was on the ground? 

***

The movie's answer was that the gas would kill anyone within a 5 mile (?) radius, and it was on a timer.   Whether Steve actually flew the plane up/out the necessary distance, I couldn't say.

The arrival in London was weird and awkward, but as far as Steve being in the Aegean, at the risk of writing the film, when one is being chased, direction isn't always in one's control.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

So, I've seen the movie twice now.
I still enjoy the heck out of it, but some of it's flaws are more visible. Nothing so bad as to ruin my enjoyment of the film though.

I do think the third act is a bit dented.  It rises above "perfunctory" for me with the Nothing At All Happened when Diana killed Ludendorf, and also when Steve sacrificed himself.

On the other hand, the whole battle with Ares felt like boss-fight inevitability, with no real attempt to flip a trope or subvert expectations or anything there. I guess it serves to end the story, but I would have liked a little more there that meshed better with the themes they set up in the same act. I.e., We really don't deserve Her. It's not about deserving. We're to blame for our own choices, not Ares, etc.

Lots of thoughts running around right now, I hope I didn't say that poorly...
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Gal as Wonder Woman. Like many others I was not happy with her casting…

••

Yours is the first complaint I have seen. Where are these "many others" to be found?

------------------

When she was first cast, there were a lot of complaints.  I was one of them.  Based on her previous appearances in film, I had the impression that she was just too physically small and willowy to pull it off.  This led to a huge online kerfuffle with people who made similar complaints to mine being accused of body shaming, sexism, etc.

For the record, after seeing her in the role in BvS, let alone the new movie, I admit I was completely wrong, and she's damn near perfect.


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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

We're to blame for our own choices, not Ares, etc.

••

Yet, when the real Ares dies, the War ends.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Establishing that Steve is going to blow up the gas canisters simply by SHOOTING into one of them, why could this not be done while the plane was on the ground?

***

The movie's answer was that the gas would kill anyone within a 5 mile (?) radius, and it was on a timer.

••

You think Steve flew more than five miles up? More than 26,000 ft, when oxygen masks are mandatory above 14,000?

And I have no idea why you think the timer was important. If he could blow it up in the air, he could blow it up on the ground. Seems like the whole point of blowing it up was to negate its lethal qualities. Burn the gas.

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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

That it's being hailed as the best thing since Nolan's Batman makes me laugh...

On Facebook, I wrote a brief review where I suggested it was the best DC movie since BATMAN BEGINS...which is not near as much "Nolan's Batman" as its follow-ups would be.

Gadot is a revelation. Like Chris Evans' Captain America, I had trouble picturing the character in the role when first announced. Now, I can't imagine anyone else would do it better.

On that note...it seems if you're an American Captain named Steve who's fallen for a strong, exotic, beautiful woman while going on adventures with her during a World War, you're destined to save a big chunk of that world in an evident act of self-sacrifice involving the sabotage of a huge plane full of advanced German weaponry.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 12 June 2017 at 11:15am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

On that note...it seems if you're an American Captain named Steve who's fallen for a strong, exotic, beautiful woman while going on adventures with her during a World War, you're destined to save a big chunk of that world in an evident act of self-sacrifice involving the sabotage of a huge plane full of advanced German weaponry.

•••

Should I take from this that Captain America's backstory has been radically altered since the last time I looked?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Speaking of American captains, another element to which I strongly object is the de-Americanizing of the Wonder Woman character. Steve works for British Intelligence. They "return" to London, not Washington. She ends up living in Paris.

Even her familiar accoutrements are ancient Amazon artifacts, with nothing to do with the American eagle or the Stars and Stripes.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

It's hard not to speculate that the shift away from World War II -- where the Americans were unquestionably the good guys -- is also part of that de-Americanization, even though none of the producers' explanations admits to this. Breitbart (yuck) has clamored about this, so I hate to think I might agree with anything it avers, but...


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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

The shift to WW1 seems intended to take her out of Captain America's shadow.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

These kindergartners had the best reactions to “Wonder Woman”
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

They took kindergarten kids to see this movie?????
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

It's hard not to speculate that the shift away from World War II -- where
the Americans were unquestionably the good guys -- is also part of that
de-Americanization, even though none of the producers' explanations
admits to this.

------

In addition to differentiating Wonder Woman from Captain America, the
idea of Ares playing both sides is problematic with a "just war" like
WWII.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Should I take from this that Captain America's backstory has been radically altered since the last time I looked?

Yes. The way he ends up in the ice near the end of his first MCU movie is in an attempt to steer a super-plane of the Red Skull's carrying mega-bombs down into the ocean (to spare New York and other targets).

Steve Trevor's actions were fairly reminiscent...


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 12 June 2017 at 1:33pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

By what metric is WWI considered "unjust"?
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

By what metric is WWI considered "unjust"?

-----

Maybe non-just war.

WWII has a clear, simple post-war narrative of Nazis being the bad
guys that had to be stopped. I think if you ask people what WWI was
about, you'll be lucky if you get the assassination of Archduke Franz
Ferdinand, luckier still if you get an explanation of the chain reaction of
national alliances that entered the war triggered by that assassination,
and will very rarely get a more complex explanation of all the factors
that led up to the global conflict. Certainly the Germans are labeled the
bad guys for their wartime atrocities in Belgium and their unrestricted
U-boat warfare, but as far as the Allies vs Central Powers conflict, I
don't think it's clear to most people today what that was about.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I think I get what Michael is saying.  Placing Ares behind the Nazis makes Ares a Nazi in the same way that people think Hydra = Nazis at Marvel.  It also, somewhat offensively, relativizes Hitler's evil (it wasn't really he or his generals behind the atrocities, this other guy manipulated them into it).  Having Ares behind both the Nazis and the Allies only doubles down on the problem.

World War I is more ambiguous.  Certainly, there were atrocities committed, but of a somewhat different kind.  It seems much more like a war that didn't necessarily need to happen (whereas the Nazis had to be stopped).Having Ares as the one who started the dominos tipping, and then who kept stoking the fires to keep peace from being accomplished, works a little better and doesn't trod on anyone's sensibilities.
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Ernest Voyard
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Posted: 12 June 2017 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Article

It's always funny when they ignore the last 40 years of comics, cartoons
and animated movies to make a point.

Edited by Ernest Voyard on 12 June 2017 at 9:45pm
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Jani Evinen
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Posted: 13 June 2017 at 3:30am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I really liked the film. It's up there with my favorite superhero Movies , a list that includes Batman Begins, Iron Man, The Wolverine, and now WW.

I loved both Gal Gadot and Chris Pine in their roles. Also really liked the stuff with the Amazons. Since the Movie is a hit, I hope to see more of that in future films.

Edited by Jani Evinen on 13 June 2017 at 3:31am
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Jeremy Simington
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Posted: 13 June 2017 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Saw it today, found it so-so. Gadot was great. The film was too long. The Ares "reveal" was obvious. The end fight was a shame given what was done with the other action sequences. For a DC movie it's a high mark, which is faint praise indeed.

Three final points:
1. I was right there with JB thinking about Superman II syndrome with some of the powers she displayed.  I'm no Wonder Woman expert, but she beat Ares by absorbing his energy and redirecting it back at him.  Is that a canon power?

2. Re: Steve Trevor's sacrifice, were there no parachutes in WWI?  I was OK with him dying, but it could just as easily (and more sensibly) come from him hurling himself in front of an Ares blast to save Wonder Woman.

3. The "Ares death=end of WWI" plot element is a problem that cannot be overlooked given that we all know WWII is coming in ~20 years!  "I must kill Ares" cannot be dismissed a MacGuffin since it's the main plot point of the film and the main character's primary motivation.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 13 June 2017 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

The "Ares death=end of WWI" plot element is a problem that cannot be overlooked given that we all know WWII is coming in ~20 years!  

==========

Yup, it's a big hint that Ares survived his defeat by Wonder Woman. 
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 13 June 2017 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

"Yup, it's a big hint that Ares survived his defeat by Wonder Woman."

I thought the same thing. I mean he IS a god. What is death, really, to a
god?
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