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Topic: John Byrne’s X-Men or Fantastic Four? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 12 December 2016 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | 1  

At the time, definitely X-Men.  Today, of the two, definitely Fantastic Four.  But I love 'em both.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 12 December 2016 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | 2  

I wonder what the upcoming confrontation with Doom and the "Rogue Storm" storyline would have been like had JB remained. Definitely no match strike, I would think. Also, would the book have moved off-Earth and spent so much time with the Kree, the Brood, and the Acanti if Claremont hadn't been collaborating with the very space-oriented Dave Cockrum? Stories returned fairly quickly to Earth when Paul Smith came aboard. I also wonder sometimes what direction the book would have taken and where it would be today if Brent Anderson had accepted the invitation to take over from JB. So many possibilities...

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Steven Myers
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Posted: 12 December 2016 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 3  

I read most of the Claremont/Byrne run in reprints. I read the FF run while it was released. I think both are very fun reads. The X-Men really becomes a great book during that run. The FF returns to greatness. I think I started to tire of Byrne's FF towards the end, and didn't read the final issue of the Byrne run until a few years ago. (I tired of Claremont's X-Men a year or so earlier.)

Ah, but so much greatness! Any comic half as good as these is considered great!
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 12 December 2016 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 4  

I finished rereading the Claremont/Byrne run of X-Men a few weeks back. Good stuff. But I gotta say Claremont's writing style began to grate on me towards the end. 




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James Woodcock
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 12:08am | IP Logged | 5  

What bugged me to no end was how Clarermont introduced Madelyne Pryor so quickly after Jean's death.
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There's that elasticity of time again. It was 30 issues later, nearly three years. Or, at that point in my life, a sizeable portion of my life so it didn't feel so quick to me.

Which is why I think marvel need to realise that when they remove/replace a character for 12 or more issues, they can alienate potential new readers for their entire future reading life. Example. If I'm seven and cannot get an Iron Man comic that stars Tony Stark for three years, I'll be ten by the time I could. That is nearly half of my life at seven, a third at 10. You have lost that reader.

For years now, the MCU has been saying that Tony is the son of Howard Stark. For years, the comics have been making the fact he isn't a major plot point. That's a difficult connection for new readers to make. How long has Thor not been Thor now? when Walt Simonson did that, it was done and dusted in four issues. No one alienated.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but actually, this has just occurred to me. Could the reason the internet goes so 'this is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. It's the end of the world' whenever new plot points are announced be that we realise there will be three years of this rubbish rather than a quick, done and dusted, four issue tale? See Captain America being a Hydra spy as another example.

Anyway, back on topic, I really couldn't decide. I love CC/JB X-MEN but I also love JB FANTASTIC FOUR. Dark Phoenix and Days of Future Past. Don't think I could give them up. But then, neither could I give up the Trial of Galactus. So for me, a no win situation
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Jeff Scott
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 2:49am | IP Logged | 6  

Was it really 30 issues??  Ok, but still, Scott falling in love & marrying a Jean look-alike??  That was lame storytelling IMO.  The revelation where Madelyne Pryor was a clone came much later & was NOT an early plot development.

I dunno, maybe Scott just had a thing for redheads that looked exactly like his one true love that committed suicide?
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Ariel Justel
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 7  

Great analysis, James Woodcock
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 6:46am | IP Logged | 8  

I wonder what the upcoming confrontation with Doom and the "Rogue Storm" storyline would have been like had JB remained.

•••

It wouldn't have happened at all! That was Chris "adapting" a Phoenix story I didn't want to do.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 9  

When Chris Claremont was at his best, few could compare. 

I do not think that the Doom-Arcade storyline was Mr. Claremont at his best. And I think that... well, I do not know, so I won't speculate an answer... but I'll ask a question: was it fan-obsession with Phoenix that prompted him to continually return to things Phoenix or Phoenix-esque?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 10  

…was it fan-obsession with Phoenix that prompted him to continually return to things Phoenix or Phoenix-esque?

••

Chris deeply resented what we were forced to do with our original version of the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix story. He needed no encouragement from the fans to "bring her back" at every opportunity, no matter how contrived.

(There was a joke around the office, picturing the X-Men driving thru town and stopping at an intersection. The red light would trigger a cascade of memories of Jean/Phoenix.)

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 11  

It probably doesn't hurt his case that "resurrecting" Jean through these contrived means didn't seem to hurt sales. It also makes me wonder if she would have returned eventually if he hadn't been fanning the flames this way.

Ah, who am I kidding? She would have returned at some point, because the temptation to revive her would have been irresistible to some writer or artist. Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben are perhaps (now) the only characters who have *stayed* dead and even they're back now in CLONE CONSPIRACY.

Edited by Andrew Bitner on 13 December 2016 at 11:17am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 December 2016 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 12  

The death of Phoenix was considered by many the Greatest Story Marvel had Ever Told. Whether that's true or not, Chris' repeated -- some might say relentless -- returns to the character soon had some people in the office referring to Jean as "the least dead dead character" Marvel had. By the time Curt Busiek suggested a way to bring Jean back, distinct from Phoenix, there seemed little practical reason not to do it.
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