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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7482
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| Posted: 13 December 2016 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 1
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It's really amazing how some stories have such a long influence in comic book storytelling. And I'm glad that you were a part of bringing Jean back, JB, in the pages of FF.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 13 December 2016 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 2
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I think those "long influence" stories have been a big part of what ultimately brought comics to ruin. Too many "archeologists" both fan and pro, who will not let go. Often I've said that were I ever crazy enough to take on an EiC position, one of my first rules would be that no stories could reflect anything published more than three years before. (And if your mind now leaps to search for a character who MUST make earlier references, friend you are part of the problem!)
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 13 December 2016 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 3
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Often I've said that were I ever crazy enough to take on an EiC position, one of my first rules would be that no stories could reflect anything published more than three years before.••••••
THAT would certainly be a BIG challenge for today's writers!!
Still, it would put be a nice step toward fixing what's broken.
-C!
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Jeff Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 November 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 238
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| Posted: 13 December 2016 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 4
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I wish Phoenix had not been killed off in #137, still so many great stories to be told with the character.
Would be cool if Chris Claremont,John Byrne & Terry Austin would get together for a project that I call "X-Men: The Original Vision" where Phoenix does not die (as originally planned) and the story just continues on from there starting with #138, with a recap to the original ending as published in "Phoenix: Untold Story". There were already planned out plots at the time, just resurrect those and do a year or two worth of great stories.
Edited by Jeff Scott on 13 December 2016 at 1:20pm
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 13 December 2016 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 5
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Based on the evolution of Chris' writing style, I'd not
likely pick it up. Despite my enjoyment of that run, I
don't think we can go home again. Shutters fixed, new color
siding and the house doesn't feel remotely the same.
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Jeff Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 November 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 238
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| Posted: 13 December 2016 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 6
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Us fanboys like to dream big! ;)
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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6603
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| Posted: 14 December 2016 at 3:05am | IP Logged | 7
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FF all day.
IMO Claremont's writing was too wordy, too contrived, and, in hindsight,
too Claremontian.
The art was pretty tho!
Wasn't so much the words Jean said before the laser killed her as it
was the look on her face and the anguish of Scott's scream.
Not so much the things The Watcher said as it was the kinetic frenetic
look of what was happening and the fear in Wolverine's eyes.
Not so much the way Shaw spoke, as it was the way it seemed his
POWER jumped offfthe page.
Game, set, match: JB
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Ariel Justel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 August 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 70
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| Posted: 14 December 2016 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 8
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I'm new to this forum and I'm sure this was covered before but I would be very grateful if someone can answer the following questions I came up with while reading this and other threads in this forum:
1) Is John Byrne mad or bitter with Chris Claremont for any particular reason? It seems that Byrne usually makes fun of Claremont or remember some anecodote that makes fun of him (and not always in a goog light).
2) I also see a lot of criticism regarding Chris Claremont. I don't understand the level of criticism for this writer due to his pivotal role in comics history. May it be possible that this general criticism is due to many members being 100% Byrne fans (and Byrne possibly being mad or bitter with Claremont...)?
3) Is it strange for anyone else in the forum that after 4 full pages of comments 99% of the guys that posted said that they prefer the FF run over the X-Men one? I believed that the Claremont-Byrne run was considered one of the best runs in comics history (it is ranked number one or two on most list voted by fans). And I think that the X-Men are universally more popular than FF so I can fully grasp if the people here are trying too hard to please John Byrne (or side with him) or are too "fans" of his work.
I'm not trying to polemicize and I don't want to disrespect anyone... It's just that this whole thread is very unusual...
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12444
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| Posted: 14 December 2016 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 9
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QUOTE:
| Is John Byrne mad or bitter with Chris Claremont for any particular reason? It seems that Byrne usually makes fun of Claremont or remember some anecodote that makes fun of him (and not always in a goog light). |
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JB can answer for himself, of course, regarding his feelings about Chris Claremont. As a reader of this forum, though, I do not see any indication that he is "mad or bitter." These two professionals worked together for many years and then parted ways, and there are reasons and causes behind that. That JB is honest enough to offer his perspective does not automatically render him churlish. JB has praised Mr. Claremont many and oft as well.
QUOTE:
| May it be possible that this general criticism is due to many members being 100% Byrne fans (and Byrne possibly being mad or bitter with Claremont...)? |
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Last night I watched an episode of the TV show BULL, and a novice courtroom attorney objected to a question by exclaiming, "I object, your honor! That question assumes facts not in evidence, I mean, even worse, it assumes lies not in evidence!" Anyway, I have no idea what it means to be a "100% Byrne fan." That he never has, never does, never will do/go wrong? Even John Byrne himself doesn't say that!
QUOTE:
| Is it strange for anyone else in the forum that after 4 full pages of comments 99% of the guys that posted said that they prefer the FF run over the X-Men one? |
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More percentages, eh? This thread is so important that we need to do the math? Anyway, the question was purely a matter of taste, asking us to pick a "favorite," and in particular noting that the question is about John Byrne's work. In that regard, as several posters already stated, they view the X-MEN run as much more a collaboration than the FF run. The question wasn't which run is superior, more important, more influential, etc.
QUOTE:
| I'm not trying to polemicize and I don't want to disrespect anyone... It's just that this whole thread is very unusual... |
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I think your questions are indeed polemical and disrespectful. Unfortunately when it comes to critics of JB, that's not unusual.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 14 December 2016 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 10
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Since this is John's forum, #1 can only be answered by
him and so you are better served, asking him. That is, if
you think it is appropriate to ask him that question.
2) While I understand the question, it seems to posit
that if one likes John, than he must dislike Chris. Can
only speak for myself, but I don't view either as
mutually exclusive. I dug Chris' stuff during my
childhood. His evolution left his work from the past 25
or so unenjoyable for me.
3)The X-Men stuff that John and Chris did was absolutely
stand-out stuff at the time. Solid work, but I think that
much of the accolades that it receives is due to the fact
that it did stand out so much. I think that the FF stuff
stands up more for reading today. If you are looking for
a more representative sample of the fanbase, you'd need
to poll a few thousand people.
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Ariel Justel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 August 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 70
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| Posted: 14 December 2016 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 11
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Michael Penn, regarding this...
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
I think your questions are indeed polemical and disrespectful. Unfortunately when it comes to critics of JB, that's not unusual.
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... I can tell you two things:
a) English is not my natural language and it is hard for me to express myself very well. Maybe that's why it may sound disrespectful. Not my intent.
b) I don't know why you assume I am a JB critic. I'm a fun, too, I wouldn't be here otherwise. Are you falling into 'assumes facts not in evidence, I mean, even worse, it assumes lies not in evidence!'? hahaa, don't get mad... I'm trying to be funny.
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Jeff Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 November 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 238
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| Posted: 14 December 2016 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 12
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Ariel Justel: As writer, Byrne did a solid 5 year run on FF plus 3 annuals and with crossover/special issues he did well over 70 issues plus don't forget his late 70's run with Marv Wolfman & those Marvel Two-In-One issues, on X-Men it was only 34 issues as penciller & co-plotter. Yes, X-Men had a couple of classic story arcs, but his work on FF lasted longer and had many, many great stories.
So I don't think it is unusual for the majority here to choose FF over X-Men at all. But with anything, it is a matter of opinion.
I don't think the criticism regarding Claremont is that bad, nothing nasty or disrespectful. I think Claremont was better with Byrne as co-plotter in those early days & enjoyed other books he wrote, like "God Loves Man Kills". For me the writer has to have a good artist or I can't remain interested, so after Byrne left I did enjoy Paul Smith's short run, but I didn't stick around long after that because JRJR's art did not appeal to me.
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Topic Closed)
