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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 1  

Excellent points, Brian.

In regards to the Mirror universe, it does indeed strain credibility to take a "We can do anything we want, because it's not 'our' universe!" approach, because things would diverge wildly from what we know. "Mirror, Mirror" made a point of highlighting the mirrorness of it all. People, events, and history all parallel each other. We could imagine parallel versions of other TOS episodes, but, as JB noted, it's hard to imagine events going in such a way that the ship and/or core crew would all be alive and in place for Kirk and company to meet them in "Mirror, Mirror".

Getting ahead of myself, here--I'll be reviewing Part 2, tonight--but things like Mirror-Archer's death and the Empire having a Constitution class starship to reverse-engineer and tinker with a century before the I.S.S. Enterprise was built would surely cause the Mirror universe to wildly diverge from ours. So, what, starship design completely failed to advance in the century after the Defiant showed up? The Empire just copied that design for decades? 



...thanks for the mental image of Pike in a gimp suit as Marta recites Shakespeare to him, by the way.


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 05 March 2017 at 4:24pm
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 2  

The Defiant almost has to be blown up immediately and her destruction be complete, with no "Terminator arms" left behind for things to proceed as they did. That wouldn't really surprise me since Hoshi has zero command skills, zero combat time, and zero experience, period. All she has is the biggest gun, and it wouldn't take much for someone to take it from her and beat her over the head with it. 

Marta: "'Love goes by haps; Some Cupid kills with arrows, some with traps...' Antony & Cleopatra, Act V, Scene V. Your's are comfortably fastened, aren't they, lover? Blink once for yes, twice for 'Tighter, darling...'"


Edited by Brian Hague on 05 March 2017 at 3:32pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 3  

One of the negatives regarding ENTERPRISE's cancellation would be the fact that they never got to do any more follow-up Mirror stories. They'd hoped to possibly do it once a season, and that would have been neat. The end of Part 2 is a nice sort of done-in-one twist ending, but it also simultaneously begs for some sort of follow-up.

The logical deduction is that Empress Sato and the Defiant would indeed have been taken out rather quickly, due to both the barbarism of the people in that universe, and the need for no "Terminator arms" to contaminate the technological evolution of the Mirror universe prior to "Mirror, Mirror".


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 05 March 2017 at 11:59pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 4  

There aren't a lot of actual talking animals...

•••

Over seven billion here on Earth.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 5  

...it also simultaneously begs for some sort of follow-up.

•••

As I've often noted, there's not a story out there that could not have a sequel. The trick is to know when NOT to do one.

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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 6  

When Braga discussed about focusing all of Enterprise Season 5 on the Mirror Universe it was for me a signal that he did not even had trust any more in the show that he had helped to create, and that Season 4 had to use "fan fiction" and fixes by other writers to get back on track.

The Mirror Universe is an amusing plot device for an occasional use but not something to rely upon.

If you do one parallel universe, why not other parallel universes?
One in which Pike never suffered debilitating injuries?
One in which the Organians never interfered in the Federation-Klingon War?
One in which the Romulans won the Romulan Wars?
One in which the Borg successfully contacted the rest of the Collective in Star Trek First Contact?

If it is about episodes in which everything can happen to the characters and the ship because it is not the "original/true" version which would never suffer or die the writers could better go for the parallel universe plot device then.

I find myself having the frustration of trying to follow to much up to old content to the point that I feel like a hack doing nothing but plagiarism instead of trying to be creative.


Edited by Marten van Wier on 05 March 2017 at 8:33pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 7  

Get SLIDERS in the Netherlands?
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 8  

Get SLIDERS in the Netherlands?

**

Oh yes, that was pretty intriguing show at first, before it started to do B movie version of plots involving aliens, vampires, dinosaurs.

But that still beat the episode with the hippies or one of the male characters getting pregnant, or the one were everyone was forced to use drugs.

And I confess, the small peak at Naturalist Earth made me smirk.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | 9  

"Smoress Sato..." Two typos in a single word, Greg, or is this a term for a particularly warm and yummy, freshly-toasted Empress with a crispy graham-cracker exterior and mushy, chocolaty marshmallow insides?

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 05 March 2017 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | 10  

...****ing auto-spell correct is always second-guessing me, and making it look like I type nonsense words! GAH!


But, yes, Hoshi is S'moretastic.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 2:00am | IP Logged | 11  

..."In a Mirror, Darkly", Part 2.

This's one's just a bundle of fun, and dripping with TOS references, both subtle and not. It's a pleasure to see the Defiant treated by the characters as being so advanced and technologically superior to the era of ENTERPRISE, which is how it should be. What's the word? Ah, yes--"respect". The only thing that comes close to poking fun at the "cheesiness" of TOS is Mirror-Hoshi's comment about the TOS uniforms. 

Eden FX's CGI Defiant looks great! and is a few notches above CBS Digital's Enterprise from the Remastered TOS episodes. Makes me wish Eden had gotten the job, rather than CBS cheating out and using their in-house people. The Defiant has some very minor tweaks (inside and out) compared to the classic Enterprise, but it looks and moves just as one would imagine it should when depicted by modern-day visual effects. Some may recall that I enjoyed the ship's usage in this episode so much, that I built a 1/1000 model kit based on its specific look in this episode, complete with subtle Aztec-paneling and phaser bank emplacements.

The sets and uniforms look great, and even the classic TOS sound effects have been remixed and tweaked such in a way as to make them fit in more smoothly with modern audiences' expectations for futuristic technology. All things considered, the depiction of the TOS elements seen here proves that the designs all pretty much still work timelessly, and under the proper conditions, could be made to serve well in a modern-day iteration of TREK. 

I'm not so keen on the CG Gorn, though. I understand why they went with it, instead of a guy in a suit, but the design was tweaked a little too far away from the classic Wah Chang Gorn suit for my tastes. Would been more fun to see Scott Bakula beating on a guy in a rubber lizard suit, too.

Speaking of Bakula, he's in full-ham mode, here. Very entertaining, but playing things arch is not his strong suit. As noted for Part 1, he and the rest of the cast were clearly having a ball with this material. The ending with Empress/Smoress Sato taking charge is legitimately great. Chilling and yet strangely cathartic, given how underdeveloped "our" Hoshi was and how underused the lovely Linda Park was for the bulk of the series. She's far more interesting when playing a slutty manipulator than she ever was when playing "our" Hoshi. And, while it's pretty much illegible in the episode proper, the biographical data on "our" Hoshi (as viewed on the computer by Mirror-Archer) reveals that Hoshi ended up on Tarsus IV, and was among those executed by Governor Kodos.

Anyway, one of the fun things about the story itself is that it all comes down to internal strife and backstabbing within the Empire. The alien rebellion subplot barely even comes into it, aside from T'Pol and Soval's attempts to sabotage Archer's mad plans. Of course, the xenophobic aspect of the Empire is a call-forward to DS9's Mirror episodes, in which humanity has been beaten down by alien forces. 

I'm an easy mark for this, of course, but this is still my favorite episode in the entire series, if nothing else for the glorious TOS fanwank that is swims in. Fun, fanfic-y, and fast-paced. Love it! 

...but what does it say that one of ENTERPRISE's best episodes boils down to being an homage to the parent show which it has consistently ignored and/or overwritten? That does not speak well regarding ENTERPRISE's ability to tell compelling stories or establish its own voice within the larger TREK pantheon. 




Edited by Greg Kirkman on 06 March 2017 at 2:30am
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 12  

the need for no "Terminator arms" to contaminate the technological
evolution of the Mirror universe prior to "Mirror, Mirror".

-----

If you wanted to get really fanwanky, some of the future tech from the
Defiant could have ended up in alien hands and somehow led to
the creation of the Tantalus Field.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 6:18am | IP Logged | 13  

The sets... look great…

••

Except for that annoying curved bridge railing!!

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 14  

Except for that annoying curved bridge railing!!
+++++++


Yep. I understand that they decided to tweak a few things, but "The Tholian Web" clearly showed that the Defiant Bridge had the standard angled railing (since it was a reuse of the Enterprise Bridge set). 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 15  

A few years back, somebody put out a GORGEOUS "life-sized" wall mural off the Bridge. Almost bought it -- then I noticed it was the Defiant version with the curved rail.

Thing about that curved rail, as a design element it MAKES NO SENSE. Since all the other elements are angles, why the sudden switch? Once again, an example of STAR TREK slipping further down the "designy" slope.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 16  

But, yes, Hoshi is S'moretastic.

••

Nuff said!

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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 17  


To paraphrase from another thread:

"I like navels.  Do you like navels?"



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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 06 March 2017 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | 18  

A few years back, somebody put out a GORGEOUS "life-sized" wall mural off the Bridge. Almost bought it -- then I noticed it was the Defiant version with the curved rail.
++++++++

Yeah, images of that set have represented the Enterprise in a number of licensed products. I was leafing through the recently-revised STAR TREK ENCYLOPEDIA (which was given to me as a Christmas gift), and I noted an image of the Defiant Bridge which is said to be that of the Enterprise under the "Bridge" entry. Sigh.

Granted, there aren't a lot of clean, crew-less images of the TOS Bridge set available, but the classic shot from "This Side of Paradise" would certainly fit the bill.
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 1:31am | IP Logged | 19  

I have recently been watching Enterprise Season 4 again, perhaps inspired by Greg's reviews here.
Though it is rather fan fic-ish as we have discussed here before at least I stand watching it more than the last seasons of Voyager.

I just watched the Klingon two-parter and other than that the questionable premise that really asks why this had to be made instead of something more original there were also a few things that I can not help but nitpick about.

- Beaming a canister with the virus on to the flagship of the admiral.
First of all, a transporter platform the size of a photo copy machine with the range of beaming things into space, onto a moving ship?
A little to convenient and rather questionable when we have seen the size and complexity needed to transport people.

Second, the flag ship had shield on, how did that canister get through?

Third, it has been perhaps less then a minute on the bridge of the ship and the virus was already spread throughout the ship in mere nano seconds through the ventilation system?
Wouldn't the ship's automated systems not have initiated some kind of quarantine protocol the moment an unknown airborne agent is detected?

- Phlox and the Klingon doctor's work on the virus.
I know that medical research and development in Star Trek always seems to go incredible fast but within minutes they make a cure when they use Archer as a host for the virus?
I know some preliminary work was done on the cure in the days before Archer arrived at the colony but still... even with something that accelerates someone's metabolism I find this one really iffy.

Also, rather convenient that Archer was around, but did he come alone to the lab? No security men or MACOs with him?
It is a Klingon colony you know.

- Fake drama.
The whole conflict between Archer and Reed regarding Reed obstructing the search for Dr Phlox because of the orders given by Harris, and then the part of Reed having to decide where his loyalties lie, between Archer and Section 31.
Did any of us ever think he might go for Section 31? Something like this requires a longer build up.

Also Archer's mood swings, I know that happens a lot on Enterprise but there is a lot of that in these episodes.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 2:00am | IP Logged | 20  

..."Demons".

A solid episode, bolstered by guest-stars Peter Weller (in a role similar to the one he'd later play in NUTREK INTO DARKNESS--a film in which he was one of the very few bright spots) and Harry Groener. Weller is always a pleasure to watch, and he gives John Paxton some good weight as a villain. 

Given recent real-world events, I couldn't help but feel more than a little chilled by this episode's xenophobia theme. "Terra Prime" is just a few steps away from "America First", after all. Neat to see Colonel Green's "genocidal war" (mentioned in "The Savage Curtain") expanded upon and depicted as inspiration for John Paxton's scheme, though. 

The subplot involving Mayweather's lover-turned-spy fell completely flat, for me. In theory, it's a nice, dramatic idea which could be used to deepen Mayweather's character, but the execution is totally lacking. 

Tucker and T'Pol's sorta-romance also still feels rather flat and forced. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 21  

Granted, there aren't a lot of clean, crew-less images of the TOS Bridge set available, but the classic shot from "This Side of Paradise" would certainly fit the bill.

••

My go-to source for NEW VISIONS, before I finished my 3D model of the Bridge.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 22  

A note on Hoshi and the Defiant.

First, I thought that was a terrific ending to the episode. And, based on what we had seen of her character, it made perfect sense. "Empress Hoshi" with the biggest gun in the galaxy.

Now, some, it would seem, want to start picking that apart immediately. "She lacks the training!" She doesn't NEED the training. Biggest gun, remember? The Enterprise had the capability to destroy PLANETS (General Order 24*), so a lot of tactical skill is not needed.

Does the presence of the Defiant's technology screw up the Mirror timeline as we know it? Only if the writers want it to. After all, it's not likely that Hoshi is going to turn over the ship for study. Eventually, she would presumably die (of old age) and the ship could be broken down -- but that's not going to dump a whole lot of tech into the society all in one go. They'd have to figure all that stuff out, first!

Is there a crinkle in this? Yes, and it's the old variant on the Grandfather Paradox: if I build a time machine, and go back to give Henry Ford a Model T, then where did the Model T originate?

Mind you, the Universe is so BIG it probably doesn't notice little things like that.

_________________________

* As a lad, I spent an inordinate amount of time wondering whether "General Order 24" was a BLUFF. Something Kirk (or Star Fleet in general) conceived for situations just like the one seen in "A Taste of Armageddon". I wasn't entirely comfortable with the Order, even as a last resort. But, then, gunboat diplomacy…

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 23  

* As a lad, I spent an inordinate amount of time wondering whether "General Order 24" was a BLUFF. Something Kirk (or Star Fleet in general) conceived for situations just like the one seen in "A Taste of Armageddon". I wasn't entirely comfortable with the Order, even as a last resort. But, then, gunboat diplomacy...
+++++++

At the very least, it probably wasn't a bluff in the Gold Key universe!


Anyway, I believe that a novel or two may have followed up on the story of Empress Sato.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 24  

I do still question that ending. I can't see a system working whereby the leader's girlfriend gets to kill the leader, declare herself the new leader, and everyone's just okay with that. Maybe Travis bedded and poisoned her the next night and HE gets to run everything now.

It's a fun bit but not a good one.

As for the Defiant screwing up the timeline, there is still the argument that following First Contact and preceding NuTrek as it does, Enterprise was never in the timeline to begin with. That would clear up any concerns about the Reign of Empress Sato in the Mirror Universe. It's clearly not the original Mirror Universe... The original one would not have had an Archer and co. or an NX-01.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 25  

On the contrary, the "original" Mirror Universe is the only one that COULD have Empress Hoshi AND the NX-0001, because it takes as its founding principle the notion that events were duplicated there, just in "evil" form.

Which is, as noted, why "Mirror, Mirror" does not tolerate close scrutiny.

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