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David Schmidt
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 4:28am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I really enjoyed it.

It was fun and smart altogether.

I found things I really liked in Christopher Priest's.

I'd just be thrilled to watch a Marvel movie where the hero doesn't fight his evil version...

I was a little frustrated with Klaw (Klaue) as I like the red guy with his sonic claw.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 5:37am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Has Thor fought an evil version of himself? The Guardians of the Galaxy? Did Spider-Man? 
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 6:24am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Cap, Iron Man, The Hulk, and Antman fought
their evil doppelgangers in their debut
movies in addition to (apparently) the
Black Panther.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 David Schmidt wrote:
I was a little frustrated with Klaw (Klaue) as I like the red guy with his sonic claw.
 

Well, keep in mind, how we saw him in the first movie is how he appeared in the first Black Panther appearance in Fantastic Four. And he was presumed dead at the end of that story too. When he returned from the dead he had been transformed into the red sonic claw sound-being that he is known as today. So it is possible that he could be brought back in that form in some future film.

I'll also note that Killmonger has been known to return from "death" a few times, too. 


Edited by Jabari Lamar on 21 February 2018 at 8:20am
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I had one friend complain that the film downplayed
T'Challa's genius-level intellect, by making Shuri the
tech-designer, that all the advances in his suit and
weapons seem to come from her, as opposed to being self-
invented.

A black female character with great intellect and humour
stealing the show? I can live with that!

Edited by Bill Collins on 21 February 2018 at 8:41am
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 Bill Collins wrote:
A black female character with great intellect and humour stealing the show? I can live with that!

Ditto, I'm fine with it too. And she is his sister. But I could see how some fans may feel that she was upgraded at his expense, and that there could have been some scene to show that he's scientifically brilliant too, it's just that because he's got other duties to attend to the tech-stuff is her full-time job. 
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David Schmidt
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Don't worry Jabari, I thought Klaw was ok. I love Andy Serkis' work.

Bill, I know that not every Marvel movies use that trick but I couldn't help to notice that it's what they do in most of their movies: Iron Man, Captain America I and II (Red Skull is a kind of nazi super soldier, Winter Soldier is a kind of russian super soldier), Hulk, Ant-Man and now Black Panther...

Again, I really enjoyed that movie and was blown away by the cast.
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David Allen Perrin
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I got the impression that T'Challa's suit from Civil War (the one Shuri replaced in the Black Panther movie) was T'Challa's design.  She seemed to rag on it for being 'low tech' (she said something about having to wait to put the mask on before going into action).

T'Challa is smart.  His little sister is smarter.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I got the impression that T'Challa's suit from Civil War (the one Shuri replaced in the Black Panther movie) was T'Challa's design.

——

Yes, T’Challa explicitly states that the Civil War suit was his design.
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply


I'm not quite as all fired up as some people seem to be, but the movie was enjoyable and didn't make too many departures from the comic book.  It's on par with Ant Man in that regard:  delivered what I expected and didn't try to make be feel bad for liking the comics. 

One thing that really took me out of the movie, though, was the really dodgy CGI during the crowning ceremony/M'Baku fight.  The people on the side of the rock face above the waterfall looked incredibly fake, like from a Sharknado movie kind of fake.  Maybe it was the best they could do, but there were several shots where I just started laughing they looked so bad.  Subsequent visits to the waterfall were not as bad. 

Other than that, my other complaints are all just nitpicks.  Good acting, no overly forced humor.  I'd rather have had an American actor as Ross instead of Martin Freeman doing an American accent, but it's not really a big deal. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Why was it important for you to have an "American actor" in place of Martin Freeman?  Seems such an odd nitpick that I have to ask...
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 21 February 2018 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Cap, Iron Man, The Hulk, and Antman fought
their evil doppelgangers in their debut
movies in addition to (apparently) the
Black Panther.
______
Mark I'm going to push back on this a little. I may be crazy but here's my
take...

Cap fought the grand director in the comics who was an evil doppleganger
but I don't see how the Red Skull could be his doppleganger. They both
gained abilities from Dr. Erskine's formula but turned out very different.
That's like saying because you and I go to the same gym, I'm your evil
doppleganger

Same for Iron Man. Both have suits of armor. Does that mean in westerns
when two cowboys fight each other they are dopplegangers because they
have the same weapons?

Ant-man..... same issue. They both have shrinking technology but since
they have such different personalities I don't feel the doppleganger is quite
on.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 1:44am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Oh my word, are we really complaining that characters fight evil versions of themselves? We do realise that this tends to be a trope in comics yes?
Spider-Man tends to fight characters that have an ‘animal’ theme such as Doctor Octopus, Tarantula, the Beetle, Kraven, Vulture etc

Hulk fights big ‘monster/gamma’ types

Captain America fights ‘political’ villains

Iron man fights armoured people

X-Men fight mutants

Not always, but like attracts like.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 2:22am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Oh my word, are we really complaining that characters fight evil versions of themselves?

-----

I think it's fair to criticize that the Marvel movies tend to go to that well too often. But in this case, where Killmonger is actually trying to supplant T'Challa and where their conflict is philosophical, rather than simply "I'm good; you're evil!", Panther and Killmonger being mirrors of each other actually works.
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Bob Simko
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Brit playing American a nit, but American playing African...no?
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply


Just because I didn't want Martin Freeman wasted in a role where he's doing a bad American accent.  It pulls me out of the movie. 
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

It's become a thing with Marvel that most of their origin stories, especially, have the hero fight an "evil twin," whose powers are often the same but stronger.

- Iron Man fought Iron Monger, a guy in a bigger suit of armor.
- Hulk fought Abomination, a bigger gamma monster.
- Captain America fought the Red Skull, who (in this version) was also an upgraded human due to the work of Erskine. (Slight exception here: the Skull was not notably stronger, faster or a better fighter than Cap but their unusual abilities derived from the same source.)
- Ant-Man fought Yellowjacket, a 'next gen' version of his shrinking tech.
- Dr. Strange fought Kaecilius, a sorcerer trained by the Ancient One, before talking Dormammu to a draw.
- Black Panther fought Killmonger, who had the benefit of the heart-shaped herb's enhancing abilities.

So that really leaves Thor (who fought the Destroyer and Loki first time out), the Guardians (who fought Ronan and his Infinity Stone), and Spider-Man/Tom Holland (who helped fight Cap and then took on the Vulture).

It's happened enough times for moviegoers to expect that, in their first solo movie, the hero will fight his evil opposite number. There are just more examples of it being done than not.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
I think it's fair to criticize that the Marvel movies tend to go to that well too often. But in this case, where Killmonger is actually trying to supplant T'Challa and where their conflict is philosophical, rather than simply "I'm good; you're evil!", Panther and Killmonger being mirrors of each other actually works.


Agreed, this is my view on the subject as well. You can call it a Mavel movie formula/pattern/trope, whatever, but the point is that in the context of this particular film it fits the story well enough that it feels natural, to the point where it didn't distract me or take me out of the film or anything.

The lead character is a King, and this film was about someone attempting to dethrone him and take his place. And in the case of this film (following the status quo established by Reggie Hudlin in the comics in 2005), whomever sits on the throne of Wakanda also takes on the mantle of "The Black Panther" (before that, the positions were portrayed as separate), so when Kilmonger was believed to have killed T'Challa he was crowned the new King and the new Black Panther.

There was no need to avoid that, just because the premise is similar on paper to other Marvel films. If some people choose to avoid the film for that sole reason, that's their business. It appears to be doing just fine anyway.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Just because I didn't want Martin Freeman wasted in a role where he's doing a bad American accent.  It pulls me out of the movie. 

***

I'm sick of him doing a bad British accent. Seriously, I think that Freeman and Simon Pegg are the luckiest men on the planet. Limited talent and yet somehow Hollywood can't get enough of them. And don't get me started on James Cordon. 

Anyway, back to the topic ...
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 22 February 2018 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

"Captain America fought the Red Skull, who (in this version) was also an upgraded human due to the work of Erskine. (Slight exception here: the Skull was not notably stronger, faster or a better fighter than Cap but their unusual abilities derived from the same source.)"

*** 

So the Red Skull shares none of the notable attributes of Cap and he's classed as his doppelganger?

***

"So that really leaves Thor (who fought the Destroyer and Loki first time out)
"
***

Surely Loki is far more Thor's doppelganger than the Skull is to Cap?
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