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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 David Phelps wrote:
So faithful (and isolationist) W'Kabi turns traitor in the movie and Man-Ape and Malice become good guys. Okay, then


Yeah, I'm not crazy about the W'Kabi turn. With M'Baku, though, I'm glad that they portrayed him the way they did. As has been noted before, the "Man-Ape" identity is rather problematic today, in a way it might not have been during his original creation, so it felt like this was a good way to redeem him. He stole the show almost every scene he was in. 

And as someone else noted, the Malice concept wasn't that good in the first place. She was a stereotypical Scorned Woman. Glad that was dropped too.

 Dave Phelps wrote:
Not entirely sure what Everett Ross was doing there.


I'll tell you what I'm glad he was not doing there, and that's being the star of the movie, which he likely would have been if this film was made in the not too distant past. Hollywood's "conventional wisdom" would say that the film needed a White protagonist to make it palatable to White viewers. That is deliberately what Christopher Priest created him for, a POV character for White readers. I'm glad Coogler and co. didn't go down that route, and actually gave White viewers more credit than that, and trusted that just if you just focused on making a good movie, fans of all colors would be able to enjoy it.

I've noticed on my FB that among my White female friends who saw the film, the most common praises are about Shuri, Nakia and Okoye and the rest of the Doras. The fact that they were well-written fully dimensional female characters is what they loved, even if they aren't the same color as them. 


 David Phelps wrote:
Overall, It felt like Don MacGregor's Panther with a touch of Christopher Priest's gadgets, which is a good thing-


While I'm fine with McGregor and Priest getting praised, this film also took inspiration from Hudlin's run. He's the one who created Shuri and added her to T'Challa's family. And he's revamped the original concept of the Dora Milajae, from just two "Wives in Training", to an a full-on all-female military-like unit, who serve as royal bodyguards. The film also copied the new look of them from Hudlin's run, with the bald heads, body armor and weaves, although I don't know if that was Hudlin's idea, or John Romita Jr., the artist of Hudlin's opening arc, redesigned them himself. The nature of Wakanda's history, with the idea of the nation's technological advancement coming as a result of their centuries of isolation, also comes from Hudln's run. 

The "force-push" in T'Challa''s suit is a recently-added thing, coming from the current run by Coates. As one reviewer of the film online said, it's like the took some of the best parts from all of BP's solo runs and merged them together in this film. 


 David Phelps wrote:
The only real downside for me is that, for some reason, I couldn't help but see the formula this time. Not sure why.


Well, the general "formula" is there. And if you've seen all or most of the Marvel movies up to this point, you will likely notice it. Yes, it's an origin movie where the hero fights his doppleganger. Can't deny that. It was just done so much better the most of the previous films, that it felt natural, rather than as sticking to a pre-conceived plan.



 


Edited by Jabari Lamar on 20 February 2018 at 12:00am
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

They've used a lot of Avengers #87 I'm thinking. They could do worse. I remember the three issue run in Marvel Premiere and there were jerks in pointy hoods, ugh.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Yes, it's an origin movie where the hero fights his doppleganger. 


See, Id argue its not an origin movie. Black Panther, as a superhero, is already fully formed, and its not about him learning how to be a hero. His struggle is with deciding what kind of king he wants to be. 
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
See, Id argue its not an origin movie.


And I'd argue that that is semantics. As you say it is about him taking the throne and deciding what kind of King he's going to be, and as you noted in a previous comment, there's not much divide there, "the King stuff IS Black Panther stuff", so this is an "origin movie." 



Edited by Jabari Lamar on 19 February 2018 at 11:06pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

And I'd argue that that is semantics. As you say it is about him taking the throne and deciding what kind of King he's going to be, and as you noted in a previous comment, there's not much divide there, "the King stuff IS Black Panther stuff", so this is an "origin movie." 

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Sure, but in the context of superhero movies, "origin movie" has certain connotations and conforming to the formula of "this is how this person gets his powers and his costume and his name."

Call it origin movie all you like, but you'd only be misleading and dissuading people who are tired of origin movies.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 19 February 2018 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 Michael Roberts wrote:
Sure, but in the context of superhero movies, "origin movie" has certain connotations and conforming to the formula of "this is how this person gets his powers and his costume and his name.

I believe I've explained my position well-enough. 

 Michael Roberts wrote:
Call it origin movie all you like, but you'd only be misleading and dissuading people who are tired of origin movie


For some reason I'm really not worried that anything I say is going to negatively impact this film's box office. 


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Doug Jones
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 12:37am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

If anybody who cared about such things asked me, I would tell them the film gives you everything you need to know about where the character comes from and how he came to be in less than ten cumulative minutes; the rest of the film is about where he and those around him are going.

But most people just ask me how many times I've seen it.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 1:12am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

But most people just ask me how many times I've seen it.

----

How many times have you seen it?
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 4:31am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Saw it today and wasn't too enthralled.  Something seemed lacking for me.  It was okay as a one-time-watch but I wasn't ready to see it again right away.

Too much Wakandan politics and not enough Black Panther kicking butt maybe.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

It's a third day later, and my enthusiasm for the movie shows no signs of
waning. (Maybe listening to the BLACK PANTHER ALBUM's "All The Stars" on
repeat has a little to do with that.) We'll be going back to see it a second time
this upcoming weekend.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I've never been the type to go to see a movie multiple times in the theater. Especially nowadays when I don't really like going to theater, because I hate crowds, and only go a 2-3 times year for really big films (BP was my first of this year, and Infinity War is the next one I plan to go see). But I'll be buying this on DVD as soon as that comes out so I can watch it over and over again at home.    
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 20 February 2018 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

GREAT MOVIE ALL THE WAY AROUND!

Action, heart, humor, and it inspires you like great heroes should. Home run!

Been reading Black Panther since the mid-seventies and loved everything about how he was portrayed. Great casting all the way around.
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