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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 1
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A Facebook friend of mine hasn't read a Thor comic since the 80s. He's been thinking about jumping in lately. And has been asking me a question or two.
I get a lot of questions from 'civilians' and lapsed fans, some of which I can answer. Just don't ask me about DC continuity or anything pertaining to ANY book with "Crisis" in the title. I can't tell people anything.
Anyway, my friend sent me an e-mail. Here it is:
Not being funny here but as a lapsed reader on the series (last time I was a regular reader Walt Simonson was on the series in the mid-1980s)...
What I don't understand (and of course I should really have to read the two current series to understand) is who exactly this series is about. Who is the Unworthy Thor?
I admit I'm behind the times a bit, it's just too much trying to fill in all the gaps I've missed over the years with the Marvel characters but the character as I understand it is this: originally Dr Don Blake would strike his cane on the ground and be changed into the Norse God Thor...so I assume that this meant Thor before this point must have just existed as a form of energy waiting for a body to use (that was my interpretation of things as a kid, at any rate) but what I never understood was why he shared a body with a human when none of the other gods appeared to. Would Thor just be living his everyday life in Asgard then just disappear every time Don Blake struck his cane? Or living in limbo waiting on the call....but this wouldn't allow for those Asgardian tales...and what happened to Don Blake while Thor was on the scene?
I understand that retroactively, Don Blake was revealed to really just be a creation of Odin for some reason, and that he and Thor were really just the same person (or have I picked that up wrong? I'll really have to read these issues one day to fully understand the concept)...all fair enough.
But this Jane Foster/Unworthy Thor stuff has totally confused me...If Jane Foster really is Thor then it suggests that the original early 60s version/concept stands (in which Thor is merely a bodiless entity looking for a body worth inhabiting). In itself, fair enough. But if this is the case, who actually is the Unworthy Thor (ie the version of Thor we've all loved the last 50 years or so)? He can't actually be Thor because Thor is Jane Foster. And he's not Don Blake because he was just a figment of Odin's imagination. Thor must be the entity who's currently living in Jane Foster so who's the Unworthy Thor? Obviously someone else entirely...but not Thor because a character can't be two people at the same time...or can they? A split personality?
The whole concept is just getting too messy and confusing for me at the moment and I have no idea where to start trying to catch up...
I have no idea how to handle this question. It's a good one. It does beg the question about WHO is Thor.
I was never a fan of Blake being revealed to be a human construct, I preferred the idea of a doctor in Norway coming across the hammer of Thor.
I told my friend I'd ask more knowledgeable people.
Thanks!
Edited by Robbie Parry on 16 November 2016 at 7:20am
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 591
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 2
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I was a lapsed fan and recently got into Thor. I find it fantastic and fun, though I can understand where a purist wont enjoy it. Thor is no longer Thor. Something happened and he was found unworthy. Someone else (Jane Foster) was found worthy and picked up the hammer and has taken on the mantle of Thor. She is worth because she continues to become Thor, even though it is slowly killing her. You see, Jane Foster has cancer. She is going through treatments, but the transformations into Thor undo the poison of chemo, so no progress is made on the treatments. But Jane Foster realizes the need for Thor so continues to sacrifice herself in order to save lives.
In regard to the questions from your friend, nothing has been undone or needs to be confusing. Thor of old is still, technically Thor. He just cannot wield the hammer and so has dropped the name until he is worthy once again. He is calling himself Odinson.
Jane Foster can pick up the hammer and can become Thor, just as Beta Ray Bill did back when he last read Thor or Erik Masterson after that. She is worthy of taking on the power of Thor.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 3
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No one can jump into comics anymore. I defy anyone to pick up a copy of Spider-Man or Batman, and figure out the characters, the scenario, the story from reading that single book.
The audience has changed, and probably too far. There's no room for new readers, and no time for stories that will appeal to them. The existing reader base will be the final one for the comic book industry.
Beta Ray Bill or Erik Masterson didn't call themselves Thor (well, for a brief time, Masterson was running a hoax) because Thor is Thor. The job's already taken. Calling Jane Foster Thor only causes confusion (along with a totally messed up relationship between Thor and Sif, I guess.)
Then again... right now, the Avengers are no longer the ones who appeared in the movie, right? Different people are Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, the Hulk, Hawkeye, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel... how could ANYONE pick up a book and understand that?
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 4
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It shouldn't involve homework.
Different friend a few years ago, who stopped reading in early 80s, once asked me about CRISIS, FINAL CRISIS, INFINITE CRISIS, etc. Asked about Luthor/Superman history. I didn't have an idea how to answer him - and so he declined to jump back on board.
Such conversations never happened years ago. In, say, 1981, you could have picked up a Superman or Thor comic, no problem.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 5
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There's probably enough context a new reader can glean by just starting to read the books. UNWORTHY THOR will be starting its run soon and Jason Aaron will be writing that and MIGHTY THOR both.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 6
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That said, I do agree with Eric that Jane should not be calling herself Thor. That is the son of Odin's name, it's not a job title.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133193
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 7
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As one pro said recently, "If people don't already know this stuuf they shouldn't be reading these books."For reals. And we wonder why we're in such a mess.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 8
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Yikes. That's... wow.
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 9
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Jane Foster can pick up the hammer and can become Thor, just as Beta Ray Bill did back when he last read Thor or Erik Masterson after that. She is worthy of taking on the power of Thor. ------------------------------------------------------ This is my understanding too, but, from what I've seen, doesn't she also speak in Thor-speak when she's transformed? If the transformation not only gives her Thor's powers, but changes her personality, what precisely is going on? Who is the other personality overlapping with hers? Is the hammer sentient?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15935
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 10
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I think it cuts both ways. Picking up a Superman comic in 1981, there was still decades and decades worth of back story that the new reader didn't know about, but the new reader didn't worry about knowing it. They just jumped on board.
Now I do feel the storytellers are massively culpable in making the books less accessible than they should be....
but...
.. a potential reader the worrying about the original 60s concept and whether Don Blake was a construct and who was Thor all these years is to me a case of overthink.
Almost creating your own problems.
Give the book a go and accept what is in the pages or don't. But don't bring the baggage beforehand of 50 years of history before you've even read a page.
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John Cole
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 March 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 510
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 11
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It's nothing more than an old issue of What If featuring Jane Foster as Thordis that's running on way too long.
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 12
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"This is my understanding too, but, from what I've seen, doesn't she also speak in Thor-speak when she's transformed? If the transformation not only gives her Thor's powers, but changes her personality, what precisely is going on? Who is the other personality overlapping with hers? Is the hammer sentient?"
She doesn't "think" in "Thor-speak", so I'd say the personality is her own.
I don't know if the hammer is sentient. I haven't been reading terribly long. But I haven't seen any evidence that would make me say that.
"It shouldn't involve homework."
I didn't. I just picked it up. I liked it. I picked it up again, and then again. I wasn't going in with baggage that I felt, "this is what Thor should be..." though. I hadn't bought an issue in well over a decade.
"It's nothing more than an old issue of What If featuring Jane Foster as Thordis that's running on way too long."
If you weren't buying Thor prior to this turn of events, then Jane Foster isn't keeping you away and the storyline is going along just fine.
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Topic Closed)
