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Topic: The Walking Dead Season 7 SPOILERS (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 23 October 2016 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 1  

Gasp

This needed a spoiler designation ASAP~Matt


Edited by Matt Reed on 24 October 2016 at 11:06am
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 23 October 2016 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 2  

EDIT: Never mind. Some things best not known. I shouldn't be impatient. 

Edited by Robbie Parry on 23 October 2016 at 8:09pm
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 23 October 2016 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 3  

Dang nam it !!! This show is brutal. 
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Matthew Chartrand
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Posted: 23 October 2016 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | 4  


  Brutal is right. 
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 23 October 2016 at 11:26pm | IP Logged | 5  

The show feels like it's
falling into that trap of
always dark and depressing,
all the time. Makes watching
it a chore.
Hard to see how they bring
about any kind of satisfying
triumph for the gang.

Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 23 October 2016 at 11:27pm
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David Lopez
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Posted: 23 October 2016 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 6  

The writing took the violence to an almost ridiculous level - talk about "overkill" (Ha!) - but I suppose it provides the impetus for the remaining characters to exact justice on the villain when his time comes.
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 12:06am | IP Logged | 7  

Of course it was brutal; the writer / ep admitted the objective of the episode was to believably demonstrate what it would take to truly break Rick.  I give them credit for actually taking out some substantial and beloved characters in order to accomplish that goal.   This episode drove home the point that nobody really is safe in this world.  Impressed by Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Negan (a demanding role) and I look forward to what's next.
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Ronald Joseph
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 8  

Brutal really is the best word to describe it. Visually and emotionally. 

And
 INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
"Maggie, I'll find you"
will haunt me for a long time.

  
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Thom Price
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 9  

The show feels like it's falling into that trap of always dark and depressing

***

I stopped watching two years ago, and I already found the show to be monotonously dreary.   I suppose a post-zombie apocalypse world would be awfully dreary, but I never could figure out why I would want to watch that for entertainment.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 10  

Actually, the show last season appeared to be optimistic throughout to set up the Negan storyline. Alexandria was turning into a real home after they took care of the walkers that broke in and drove off the Wolves.

As expected, last night's premiere changed everything. The Brutal nature was meant to show how severe the threat of Negan is compared to everything else.

-C!

P.S. - The show thrives because it successfully tugs at survival instincts under the incredible scenario of a zombie apocalypse. The characters'  development from season to season has been, to me at least, the most entertaining. Sometimes the series has suffered but I think last season it found it's way back on course.


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 24 October 2016 at 10:35am
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 11  

Well, and in a world this far after the outbreak of a zombie apocalypse, the people who have survived, and especially the people who thrived in that environment would most likely be the sociopaths who didn't have morality to get in their way or emotions or empathy to trip them up.

One of the ongoing themes of the comic and show has always been how far a person would go to survive.  Are there any boundaries they wouldn't cross to preserve their own life and those of the people they cared about?  Are there things that it is better to die than to sacrifice?

The heightened fantastic scenario of the zombie apocalypse, like any apocalyptic fiction, is really there to provide a background where there are no external societal restraints on morality or character, which allows you to speak about human nature.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 12  

Brutal.  One of the most gut wrenching episodes of television I've ever seen...and I'm a fan of GAME OF THRONES!  

I caught up with TWD earlier this year after dropping it during the snooze-fest that was Season 2.  Marathoned five seasons in about a month.  Glad I did.  Now watching it as a season unfolds is going to be rough, although I don't know how much my heart will be able to take if the premiere was any indication of the season to come...
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 13  

Also want to jump in here re: spoilers.  As with other series we've discussed in the past with source material ahead of the television adaptation (GAME OF THRONES, TRUE BLOOD, etc), let's keep open spoilers to the actual television series itself as the season progresses.  Please don't speculate about upcoming plot twists, character deaths, what have you that are in the comics but haven't as yet been revealed on the show.  If you absolutely NEED to do that, be respectful and use inviso-text so that those of us who don't follow the comic can choose whether or not we want to read it.

Thanks.
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John Popa
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 14  

Brutal as it needed to be - they needed to establish this status quo as something bigger and more intense than they've encountered before and, as noted, they needed to break the characters down from leaders to subservient victims. In that regard it was certainly a desperate and difficult show to watch. It was also pretty damn moving. 

I don't always love the show but last night was as powerful an episode as they've done. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 24 October 2016 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 15  

Watching now.

This is hard. So nihilistic. 

I am tempted to buy an action figure of the character who has died so that I can then buy a Neegan action figure - and have Neegan's head knocked off.

Brutal. Absolutely brutal.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 3:16am | IP Logged | 16  

I genuinely don't know if I can last this series. The deaths were brutal with the latter being as sickening as in the comic book.

I can also see how they are bringing the series in line with the comic book. They've made some decisions, I think, that whilst look like they may deviate on the face of it are part of a longer game.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 4:13am | IP Logged | 17  

There is certainly an inflation in violence and brutality in the show. More than once I have heard people talk about how the show must up the ante or get more brutal than seasons before it. However, this is the first time they may have gone too far. Matthew W., you are not the first person I have heard question their ability to stay with the show after the season 7 premier. A friend of mine commented that the show has possibly become too guignolesque. It might have pushed the boundaries of graphic violence for the sake of being graphic. Will we get to a point where the content erodes the fan base?

I agree the people willing to endure and do anything are the ones that survive this type of world. That seems like a logical progression. But can you really be a sociopath when no society exists? At some point you are either against zombies only or against zombies and humans? Right now the part of the show I find most difficult to swallow is that Rick's group is the only humans willing to be good.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 18  

Absolutely, Eric.

I had to turn away for the second killing. Having been repulsed by the same scene in the comic, I didn't need to see it again.

I continue to enjoy the comics but the TV series may soon be dropped from my viewing schedule.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 19  

I am intrigued by the Neegan storyline, but there needs to be some hope for me. I don't want us to reach, say, Season 11 or 12 and have Neegan still wielding a baseball bat and controlling them.

The Governor arc lasted a certain time. The Neegan one needs to.

It is tempting for any show to keep a popular villain going, especially as Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a very good actor. However, nihilism can be exhausting if goes on for too long. No matter how much nihilism there is in a movie franchise, comic or TV show, there has to be some hope.

We're human beings and hope is paramount. Even a little. If it's just going to be Neegan in control for the next several years, with zero hope, it's going to be hard to keep watching it. 
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 20  

The comic sets up very quickly how brutal AND CAPABLE Negan is. He is quite literally the worst threat they have faced yet.

The series is taking this tack as well.

Negan lost quite a few men to Rick and company already. He killed Abraham because he *needed* to make a point about this being unacceptable. He killed Glenn because Daryl jumped him...and that was not okay.

Yes, these were extremely violent murders. A lot of people were turned off. But that was the point of the whole thing. Negan is violent, somewhat sadistic and effective. He is a villain that demands rising to the occasion. Rick will have to prove himself even more effective to bring him down.

I get why people have tuned out. This was one hard episode to watch. But the heroes must face adversity--even overwhelming odds--if their victories are to mean anything.

It's not torture porn if it serves the story... it's just hard to sit through a guy swinging a baseball bat on the heads of two characters we've come to know and like.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 21  

Oh, I agree it's not torture porn. It had a point. It was about setting up the dynamic between Negan and Rick's group. It definitely had a point.

I won't stop watching it. I have zero criticisms of the way it was done. I just need some hope in there eventually. I don't mind slow-burning storylines, I don't want Negan defeated by the fourth episode. I do want some progress, though.

And you know what? I have faith. They didn't "overcook" the Governor arc, in my view. They would have had the Governor had still been active at the end of season six. I am okay if they give Negan two seasons to tell the story. Definitely want to see him taken down a peg or two, though.

Hey, think of it like this: when I watch wrestling, I don't want the villain defeated as soon as the bell rings. And I want him to look strong. As the match progresses, though, I want to see him less strong, I want to see the good guy making some progress, etc. That sort of thing. ;-)
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Ronald Joseph
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 22  

Back to the episode at hand...


I think Rick and his group deserved exactly what they got. They crossed a line last season and this was some big, bad karmic payback.

Was it brutal and heartbreaking? Yes. 
Is Negan a sadistic bastard; a villain the likes of which we may have never seen (or will see again)? Yes. 
Does that change what I think? No.


And I think Glenn punched his own ticket when he betrayed everything he stood for. He was really the heart of the group. Maybe representative of the last real bit of humanity they had. 

And he flushed it all down the toilet that night they murdered those guys.


Thoughts?

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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 23  

"Betrayed"? I don't recall him stating he had any moral code against killing, per se, although he was conflicted about the seige on the Saviors' hideout last season. What may have been 'karmic' about his demise was the fact that it was Glenn who took notice of the Saviors trophy pictures on the wall in their hideout, and we saw in this episode that he himself is now part of the trophy gallery.

I'd trace this latest downward descent into a now-ill-fated Ricktatorship back to the end of the 'interview' episode in 5B where Deanna made him the constable of Alexandria, and his words with Daryl and Carol at the end: "We'll take it." Ever since then, he's been increasingly careless: his feelings towards Jessie, the fight with PorchDick Pete, giving a gun to Ron, right up to underestimating the size of the Saviors forces and willingness to gather intel on the group (such as when they saved Maggie and Carol after they raided the hideout).


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Rick Senger
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Posted: 25 October 2016 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 24  

I agree, it was quite surprising when Glenn killed the man at Negan's radar dish base (I believe his first "live" kill?)  That Glenn could murder a man in his sleep was quite unbelievable to me and seemed so against his ethics I wondered about it.  The show has always been at its best for me when it confronts the conflict between doing "whatever is necessary" to survive at any cost versus trying to maintain a semblance of decency and humanity even if it risks lives.  Dale and to a lesser extent Herschel were arguably the two biggest prior "voices of morality" on the show whose deaths caused a subtle darkening in the remaining characters.  Glenn was really the last link to that group conscience and I suspect the remaining gang will continue to coarsen without his moderating influence. 

Morgan is the only real voice of humanity left but Carol and Rick have already gone against him repeatedly.   Maggie is still there and is a strong voice of reason but somehow without Glenn, I wonder if her days are numbered as well.  Likewise Eugene, whose story has always been kind of book-ended with Abraham's.  Eugene has the advantage of being a goofy, almost comic relief character at times so they might keep him around but I'm not sure what Maggie's character has left to do without Glenn.  Michonne has gained her own sense of morality but she is not always a moderating influence and she has no problem with violence.  Carol, Rick, Carl and Daryl are the only survivors still standing from the original core and while they are all certainly strong, capable individuals with specific skills, each is profoundly broken and often morally suspect. 


Edited by Rick Senger on 25 October 2016 at 5:08pm
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 26 October 2016 at 12:34am | IP Logged | 25  

I can only believe that the group, specifically Glenn, "got what they deserved" if I believed in karma.  Which I don't.  Nothing Glenn did could have been traced back to him.  His actions didn't get him murdered.  Daryl punching Negan got him killed.  Negan was perfectly happy with murdering Abraham alone.  Daryl stood up to Negan, so he reacted to quell the group. Glenn was chosen at random, in the heat of the moment.  Viciously and brutally murdered, yes, but not because of something that Glenn did previously that neither Negan nor his group could have possibly known.

As to being "morally suspect", everyone on the series is morally suspect.  There are no saints here.  No one is an innocent.  The series has gone to great pains showing just that.  Choices are made to live, but those choices always come at a price.  There are no clean hands in TWD.
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