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Joe Smith
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Posted: 07 March 2017 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 1  

Plus, they were real, so no harm no foul.
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Dale Lerette
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Posted: 08 March 2017 at 12:33am | IP Logged | 2  

I actually really enjoyed this movie. Warning, there are spoilers.  

It seems to have merged two different story lines, the Old Man Logan miniseries and another X Men story with The Reavers. 
I never read the Old Man Logan miniseries -- only read about it. And friends told me about it, too. But I actually read the last book around X Men #250 with the Reavers I think. I think it was 1989 or 1990? That was some of the last comics I bought before I quit collecting. I'm getting older so... 

Anyway, my impression of the movie was good. I got the distinct feeling that Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman were just getting tired of doing this series. And I think the film was a perfect send-off for these actors.  

I found the story was kind of meta, referring to itself almost as a parody. Wolverine at times even points to a comic book and explains this is only a comic and not true. 

I enjoyed that Wolverine's healing factor had "aged" so much so that his wounds were not completely regenerating. They were leaving scars, which is what I think was originally intended in the comic. Even one of his claws get stuck and doesn't pop out completely at one point.  He has to actually pull it out the rest of the way. 

Things are just breaking down and it's both sad and amusing to the see the heroes struggling with day to day dalliances.  

Seeing Patrick Stewart playing a senile Professor X dropping F Bombs left and right really left me with a feeling of sorrow for an old man struggling to retain his composure. I found Professor X's seizures causing psychic havoc in his near vicinity very interesting. It was like a uncontrolled psionic blast in a 100 meter perimeter. Just intense.  

There was a healthy dose of reality injected into this movie. And in my opinion it was the best Wolverine movie by far.  I would recommend it.   
    
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John Popa
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Posted: 08 March 2017 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 3  

I enjoyed the movie, more than the other X-movies, probably because it wasn't trying to do more than it could handle. I agree that the movie becomes a sort of commentary on super hero movies - in that, it shows the consequence of continually trying to pile 'realism' on these concepts. Basically, making everything realistic (in their sense anyway) just destroys the characters and leaves them old and dead, with a bunch of disturbed and creepy powerful children with no humanity left behind.

I don't know that it was intentional, but that's how it read to me.
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 08 March 2017 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 4  

 Thad Studebaker wrote:
There was a brief flash in the limo.

Ah.  Must have missed it.  One of the few drawbacks of seeing films at the Alamo is the occasional distractions of a waiter dropping off food.  I missed Eriq LaSalle's death that way - one second, he's standing there with a shotgun, the next there's a chocolate shake being placed in front of me accompanying some kind of 'thud' on the soundtrack.  The waiter goes past and LaSalle is nowhere to be seen.  Took me a couple of minutes to work out that he died during my milkshake delivery.
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Robert Kowalewski II
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Posted: 08 March 2017 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 5  

I enjoyed Logan, knowing what they didn't have rights to use aside it was a well done movie(definitely still a comic book movie, but a decent one). I was onboard for The Wolverine until the last act and the less said about X-Men Origins: Wolverine the better...
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 6  

Just saw this last night. My impressions before I read everyone else's.

A very disappointing failure. I did not like it.

Least issues:
No Stan Lee cameo.
No end credits.

Bigger issues:
Someone thought that adding a tremendous amount of "fuck", "shit", and other charming dialogue improved this movie. No, it didn't. It dragged it down to banal. As my father once said - "Everyone knows these words. But they don't use them in public." Forty years later... obviously things change.
Charles Xavier saying "Fuck"? Some third assistant script writer feels very proud of himself. Patrick Stewart blanched at this, I hope.

"No more mutants" - so what the hell happened to the mutants? Considering that this is a HUGE plot point, I'm not sure I got the point of what happened to them that artificial super beings (NOT mutants) were created, even illicitly.

Sound levels - while I don't have the best hearing, having one scene with screaming, yelling, and "fucks" littering the sound, and then suddenly having someone whispering played havoc with trying to hear everything. It wasn't sound levels at the theater... guess I'll have to wait for closed captioning to get all the dialogue.

Unreal fight scenes - okay, I expected these. It's a Wolverine movie. But explain to me how a fifty pound kid is able to use her mass and momentum to flip a two hundred pond man and take him down. Just try.

All that BLOOD! I expected violence - again, because Wolverine. But somebody must have had a good deal with Revlon or Max Factor for fake blood. I don't mind the violence, but why did it have to b e SO graphic? It took away from the movie. Every wound, every puncture, every nauseating bit of damage was highlighted. "Here's what would really happen n a fight with Wolverine!" - I don't WANT that.

What's that in the back? "IT's R-Rated. What did you expect?" I expected a NON-R RATED MARVEL COMICS MOVIE. Deadpool is an exception, and no one would doubt that. I mean, who's waiting for Doctor Strange to say "Shit!" or for the Hulk to say, "I'm going to fuck your skull."

Real easy question - what happened to Wolverine's healing factor? I wasn't interested in seeing a crippled Logan limping around the screen, but that's what we got. Human (even mutant) abilities don't "wear off", any more than our antibodies wear off fighting disease, or our lungs wearing off extracting oxygen... at least, for the most part.

Unfulfilled expectation - the ending was completely depressing. I was hoping these kids were going to form a new team of X-Men (and at the wildest, having "Professor W" leading them... hell, he was hurt. I could've seen him being in a wheelchair...

MOST disappointing.


Edited by Eric Sofer on 11 March 2017 at 8:48am
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 7  

Oh, and...

A foot claw? A FOOT CLAW?

BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!

Wait, you're serious?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 8  

It's a shame that the movie failed you. Personally I enjoyed the film more than any of the other X related films.

The foot claw is a product of the comics Eric, not the film itself.

If I may I'd like to address a few of the things you wrote.

First the language- It is perfectly acceptable for Logan to curse that much. It's with in his character. Professor x is a different matter. Like you it bother me. At first that is until someone pointed out that he was suffering from a mental illness. I know from personal experience that people suffering from mental illness or head injuries can go through personality changes. So that could explain the Professor's language.

No more mutants- Well the Professor killed some of the X-Men. My understanding is that other Mutants were hunted down and killed. At least that's the impression I got.


Unreal fight scenes? Well we are watching a movie about comic book superheroes and villains. It's only natural that the fights would be over the top. We aren't dealing with realistic situations.

R rated Movie  Hey that didn't sneak up on you. Unless you weren't paying attention It was public knowledge that film was rated R. 
Also you didn't see a Marvel Comics movie. You saw a Fox studio version of a Marvel Comics movie. 

I like that this was R rated. I don't think all comic films should be like this. Only some of them do. Because it's the nature of the character. A wolverine movie can be rated R. A X-men movie with Wolverine shouldn't be rated R. At least it shouldn't because of this level of violence and language. 

Wolverine's Healing Factor- Logan explained that it was the Adamantium in him that was killing him. 

I don't expect that Wolverine is going to stay dead. I expect his healing factor to bring him back with a new actor. 

So i'll finish this as I started It's a shame that you didn't enjoy the film. But there's always next time.







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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 9  


 QUOTE:
Charles Xavier saying "Fuck"? Some third assistant script
writer feels very proud of himself. Patrick Stewart blanched at this, I
hope.


The opportunity to do a different Xavier from the previous X-Men
movies was one of the reasons he did LOGAN. Also don't watch
BLUNT TALK if you want to believe Stewart has issues with crude
language and humor.


 QUOTE:
"No more mutants" - so what the hell happened to the
mutants? Considering that this is a HUGE plot point, I'm not sure I got
the point of what happened to them that artificial super beings (NOT
mutants) were created, even illicitly.


This was addressed in the movie. Gene therapy was quietly introduced
into food products to suppress the mutant gene. It doesn't quite fit with
what we saw in X-MEN: DOFP, which saw an active school only 6
years earlier, but I gave up on any continuity in the X-Men movie
franchise years ago.


 QUOTE:
Real easy question - what happened to Wolverine's healing
factor? I wasn't interested in seeing a crippled Logan limping around
the screen, but that's what we got. Human (even mutant) abilities don't
"wear off", any more than our antibodies wear off fighting disease, or
our lungs wearing off extracting oxygen... at least, for the most part.


Human abilities don't wear off? It's called aging. And what happened to
Wolverine was addressed in the movie. He was suffering from
adamantium poisoning, and his healing factor could no longer keep up.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 10  

Okay, I haven't seen the movie... doubt I will... but on the subject that because it's the nature of the character, a Wolverine movie can be rated R.... that is a sad excuse with all due respect. When I "met" Logan (with JB still on UNCANNY X-MEN) he was tough and edgy, but never did I consider him a R-rated character. Without any doubt, Wolverine rose to fame without have to curse or show graphic violence. There was enough shown and suggested to get me hooked on the character.

The writers got the point across that Logan was a bad-ass without having to go there... which i respected and found more creative. Nowadays, comic books and their movie counterparts feel the need to be more "mature" by being graphic or vulgar and its a shame since the most successful content reaches beyond such devices.

-C!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 11  

Gene therapy was quietly introduced into food products to suppress the mutant gene.

Only there is no "mutant gene". Mutations occur, in the X-Men context, because of changes in existing genes, not because an individual is born with an extra gene tacked on.

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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 12  

Okay, I haven't seen the movie... doubt I will... but on the subject that because it's the nature of the character, a Wolverine movie can be rated R.... that is a sad excuse with all due respect. When I "met" Logan (with JB still on UNCANNY X-MEN) he was tough and edgy, but never did I consider him a R-rated character.  

~~~~~~~~~~`
Pardon me but what did you think Wolverine was trying to do with his claws?  Wolverine wasn't one to withhold from using harsh language.Wolverine always was a violent character. Granted that JB's art didn't depict the kind of graphic nature we saw in the movies. Doesn't mean it wasn't there. Some of it Wolverine's violence wasn't shown because it didn't need to be shown. Marvel Comics was a different animal back than. It actually was still MARVEL Comics. Not what it has become today. Today we see the violence and we can read the curse words. Logan the movie reflects the way it is done today. 

The comics we grew up on are much like the movies I loved as a kid. I didn't need to see Dracula, Frankenstein and the Wolf Man killing all their victims to know that they were killing them. Now a days the producers of these films and comics think we need to see it all happen.  I suppose in someway they are correct.  WE want more and more and more. 


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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 13  

Only there is no "mutant gene". Mutations occur, in the X-Men context,
because of changes in existing genes, not because an individual is
born with an extra gene tacked on.

----

I agree, but the idea that a single gene location is responsible for all the
mutations we see in the Marvel Universe has been established in the
comics for years now.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 14  

Anthony J. - my replies to your responses (??? :)

I'm sure the foot claw originated in the comics. I didn't much care... I just think it's ridiculous. With the possible exceptions of Beast, Shang-Chi, Iron Fist, or Batroc, who fights with their feet?

Language: No one ever said Professor X had Latourette's. And that's just an excuse to get a few "fucks" out of Professor X. Bad form. As for Wolverine... the language seemed to be in there to contribute to earning the R rating, not because of character. Well, okay, once...

No more mutants - "the impression you got" is perfectly acceptable... but I wanted to see something in the movie. IMDB says that the Westchester scene was going to be in the movie, but the director felt "it drew too much attention away from the main story and liked to have situation be vague and slightly mysterious." I translate this as the movie was running long and this was too expensive. But relating the tale would have been good enough for me.

Fight scenes - yes, they're over the top. Didn't have to be SO graphically bloody - or at least, not in my opinion. Again, maybe just a way to earn that R- rating...

Speaking of... I knew that it was R-rated. A Marvel movie. An X-Men movie. One that lots of kids and teens would come to. Marvel itself should hold their movies to a higher standard than this. Again, Deadpool was an exception and we all know it.

Healing factor - I inferred that the adamantium was killing him now BECAUSE he didn't have his healing factor. Still, that didn't happen in the second Wolverine movie.

Exactly as you say, my friend; there's always next time.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 15  

Michael R. - replies for you.

I don't care if Patrick Stewart says "fuck." I don't care if he walks. I don't care if he has mad passionate sex dressed up as Sherlock Holmes. (eww....) Charles Xavier should never use that language, and if that was the condition of doing the movie... well, money talks. I don't blame Stewart... I blame the director.

"Gene therapy was quietly introduced into food products to suppress the mutant gene." That explains no new mutants. But what happened to the dozens of X-Men etc.? I can't believe that Xavier killed them all.

"It doesn't quite fit with what we saw in X-MEN: DOFP, which saw an active school only 6 years earlier"

Well, technically in movie context, it was 12 years earlier - but I agree with you.

"It's called aging." Seems to have happened REALLY fast, considering Wolverine's age. He was born in Colonial America - call it 1750, give or take. His healing factor lasted through at least 2016 (266 years) and then waned in 12 years... that's like someone being perfectly healthy until 62 and then having things crap out by 65. I guess it's possible... but I don't blame the adamantium for suppressing his healing factor. That part just hit me uncomfortable. Like Superman not being to fly.

",,,but I gave up on any continuity in the X-Men movie franchise years ago."

You said it, brother. Ever since Jean Grey couldn't telekinetically throw Wolverine at Magneto after being a senior student/instructor. Nope...
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 16  

Eric, Here are my responses to your responses to my responses :)

````I'm sure the foot claw originated in the comics. I didn't much care... I just think it's ridiculous.-- I agree with you one hundred percent. I didn't like the excuse given in the movie that it's a defensive weapon.


Language: No one ever said Professor X had Latourette's. And that's just an excuse to get a few "fucks" out of Professor X. Bad form. As for Wolverine... the language seemed to be in there to contribute to earning the R rating, not because of character. Well, okay, once...

 On this one I agree with you about Professor X and disagree about Wolverine. 

No more mutants - "the impression you got" is perfectly acceptable... but I wanted to see something in the movie. IMDB says that the Westchester scene was going to be in the movie,  I would have liked to see the Westchester scenes It was a missed opportunity. There were plenty of other scenes that could have been taken out. 


Healing factor - I inferred that the adamantium was killing him now BECAUSE he didn't have his healing factor. Still, that didn't happen in the second Wolverine movie. I'm not certain i'm remembering correctly or not. He was poisoned or something by another mutant in his second movie which robbed him of the healing factor. I don't recall if he ever got it back or not. It seems to me he would have had to get it back in some form.  Because every time he popped his claws he would have been losing so much blood. he likely would have died sooner.

Hopefully the next time Wolverine shows up it will be in a Marvel Studios film. Maybe than we'll get a better version of the character. A shorter version as well.



Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 11 March 2017 at 4:19pm
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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 11 March 2017 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 17  

Marvel itself should hold their movies to a higher standard than this.
_______________
Their movies?  They seem to have a hard enough time maintaining these lofty standards in the titles they directly publish.

Once the demand or insistence or inevitability (or whatever you want to call it, since it's been discussed for years) of the movies adapting the 'Old Man Logan' story on film began, it was fairly evident that they were pushing the envelope towards doing an R-rated take on a few characters, likely adapting a fan-favorite story that Marvel itself put it's stamp of approval on. I'm not sure why Deadpool gets special exemption by virtue of 'cuz Deadpool'.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 12 March 2017 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 18  

Charles Xavier saying "Fuck"?

***

Hated this too. Assumed it was referencing him similarly swearing when he meets Wolverine in DOFP which in turn was referencing Wolverine swearing at him when they first (briefly) met in First Class. Still hated it though.
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 13 March 2017 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 19  

Looks like it's just you and me, Eric.  I'd take 5 of the 6 X Men movies over this one. Everyone but LAST STAND.  They all had their flaws. However, them or this, I take them.  I'd take THE WOLVERINE over this.

To be clear, I don't hate it.  I don't think it's terrible.  We are not talking FF 2015 bad here.  Perhaps it's my own prejudices in what I'd like to see from an X Men, even a Wolverine movie.  And I know Wolverine.  Untl I dropped the X books in, I believe,2003, I had bought his solo title every month since it debuted.  Still, even by Wolverine standards, this is really dark and graphic.

I know Xavier had dementia.  Noone asked Mangold to use him that way.  To have a story where he likely killed a whole bunch of people.
Again, just so dark.  Not at all how I'd want Xavier's sendoff to be.  Also, he was lucid a lot of the movie.  It's when he has his seizures that the problems start.  

I never read the comics story.  It was after I left.  I did read a wiki summary of it.  Now, I can see why the movie was the way it was.  The comics version is an alternate reality character.  It's not like this is a canon Logan story begging to be told.  Well, I guess it was for Jackman and Mangold.

It\s just the praise is SO effusive.  LIke the ending and how people were choked up.  Not me.  Call me insensitive.  This girl has been skewering people for half the movie.  She generally can't stand Logan.  At the end, she holds his hand, cries a few tears and says daddy.  I'm supposed to be deeply moved?  Sorry, I wasn't.  I'd say Jean in X2, even Magneto's family in APOCALYPSE, much more moving.  For me, of course.

Maybe it's just me and Laura since I have no investment in here.  I only know the cartoon version for an episode or two.  Pierce I thought was a cipher.  He has cybernetics.  I didn't see anything besides that distinguishing him as PIerce.  THere was no inherent hatred for mutants.  He was muscle doing his job.  Dr Rice I don't know about so no comment.

Yet everywhere I look, plaudits.  Best X men movie ever.  Best comics movie ever.  To each his own.  I'm used to being in the minority.  THese Marvel movies that are praised everywhere.  The majority of them have too much comedy for my tastes.  I just read someone saying that we'll see the funniest Thor ever in his next movie.  I'm not looking for a stream of one liners from Thor.  That's my biggest problem with Downey's Iron Man.  From Deadpool?  Knock yourself out, that is his character.  Profanity fits his character.  Other Marvel character, not so much so.

I'm sure Jackman and Mangold will survive if a handful of us didn't love the movie.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 13 March 2017 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 20  

I think it's a mistake to keep referring any of these films that aren't made by Marvel studios as a Marvel movie. They aren't determining how Fox and Sony  are making these movies. 

I do think it's the best X related movie that has been made. But that isn't saying all that much because I think for the most part they weren't very good movies. I liked some of the actors involved tho.  

I agree with you about Magneto's family that was much more emotional. 
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 14 March 2017 at 3:37am | IP Logged | 21  

All age characters should not be in R rated movies. Period.

You want to tell an R rated movie? Invent your own.

For an adult to say 'I want a more adult story with this character' is wrong. These characters were created all ages but primarily to be enjoyed by children. Don't rob children of the things you enjoyed as a child. Especially in the main issues of a character.

Dark Knight and Watchmen have a lot to answer for, although actually, Watchmen got it right in the end - it used analogues to existing all age characters.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 14 March 2017 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 22  

Well, horribly, since even comic books aren't for kids anymore, it's open season on the characters.

There wasn't a lot to be changed to get me to like - maybe even love - this movie. PG-13'izing it would probably have done it.

ITEM: Lose the profanity. BIG bugaboo for me. I don't go around my life cussing like that, most people I know don't go around their lives talking like that. And we aren't as disciplined as Charles Xavier or Wolverine.

ITEM: Not so graphic violence. I expect violence; I know this isn't the Bolshoi Ballet. But I also know what Wolverine CAN do with his claws. So you don't have to show me.

ITEM: Charles Xavier is 90+ years old! Do you really NEED any more explanation of waning facilities than that?

ITEM: I had no interest in Laura and no emotional investment. There was nothing likeable about her... she was a continual temper tantrum. At the very end, she shows warm emotions for Wolverine... yeah, a little too late.

ITEM: The deaths of Professor X and Wolverine. I wanted them to have more heroic ends - maybe like Caliban's, This is PROFESSOR X! He dies lying in bed killed by a Wolverine clone? Kinda anti-climactic.

Wolverine died in combat, which I guess is the way he wanted to go... but WHY end the franchise? Well, yeah, it's set in 2029... but still, I was hoping that injection of green Kool-Aid would have restarted his healing factor.

=============================

Anthony J. - what is a movie with Spider-Man, the X-Men, Ghost Rider, the Fantastic Four, etc. if not a Marvel movie? Or perhaps you mean to avoid referring to them as MCU movies...?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 14 March 2017 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 23  

Anthony J. - what is a movie with Spider-Man, the X-Men, Ghost Rider, the Fantastic Four, etc. if not a Marvel movie? Or perhaps you mean to avoid referring to them as MCU movies...?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
They're movies about Marvel characters. But they aren't being made by Marvel . So I wouldn't call them Marvel Movies. 

The MCU movies may not exactly be the same as they were in the comics I grew up with but they're pretty close. Heck they're more like the characters I know than what's being done in the comics. 

With Sony and Fox there should be a disclaimer at the beginning of their films stating " any resemblance is purely coincidental".

There is no doubt in my mind that if Logan had been apart of the MCU.  The issues expressed in this thread wouldn't have occurred. 
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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 14 March 2017 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 24  

"With Sony and Fox there should be a disclaimer at the beginning of their films stating " any resemblance is purely coincidental"."

Ha!  Stealing this!!
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David Miller
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Posted: 14 March 2017 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 25  


 QUOTE:
These characters were created all ages but primarily to be enjoyed by children.

In retrospect, perhaps a heroic homicidal maniac who stabs people to death with knives surgically implanted in his fist may have been a bit ill-suited as a character for children. 
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