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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 01 August 2016 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The considerations brought up here about sending an entire population into the past to save it make the concept MORE intriguing to me. This episode dropped the ball by stopping so far short of exploring the real implications.

It would be more noble to die in the exploding sun than to risk rampant time paradoxes or horribly revised history, but it would be easy to imagine a population which wasn't noble enough to do that. If word got out that they could escape backwards into the past, many would likely demand: "We'll risk it! Send us back!"
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 02 August 2016 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

JB: "Which is why that "preparation" would have to include some kind of sterilization."

That brings up a most delightful controversial topic: would it be better to die in a few days in a (one hopes) quick and painless nova, or to go back in time to live for years - possibly decades - just to finish out one's life in a primitive society where others could reproduce, but not oneself?

DC's "history cannot be changed" policy may have been a bit simple, but it probably saved a lot of sanity - both readers and writers!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 August 2016 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The notion that history cannot be changed is poppycock. If we ever get time travel working, I'm sure there will be all kinds of upheavals -- tho we, in the Present, will not know about them!

Which brings up the "Grandfather Paradox," and further poppycock. The idea that the Universe would even notice the "paradoxes" we create is absurd. Too damn big!

And, anyway, sure the Nazis won WW2, but we went at it again a few years later and kicked their butts, so everything worked out fine, right?

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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 02 August 2016 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

It makes you wonder if parallel universes existed, how many have unwound from the 'prime', and how many have unwound from those timelines.

How many timeslines are there in which the Nazis won World War 2? And how many timelines did that create in which time travelers go back in time to undo whatever made it possible for the Nazis to come out victorious out of that conflict?
Heh, and how many timelines are there in which the Nazis were victorious by traveling in time themselves, in the past to change crucial battles or other outcomes, or to into the future to retrieve advanced technology to enhance the wehrmacht, the navy, and the air force with. (and of course get the atomic bomb, with perhaps ICBM technology to deliver it)

How many timelines in which the dinosaurs are still around? Or in which there was no 'dark age' (okay I know this is bullshit, the dark ages were not like a lot of us think they are but what I mean is, what if science and technology kept progressing at a fast pace), and where we colonized the moon, Mars, and other worlds within our solar system centuries ago?

Perhaps the people of Sarpeidon should have tried to invent a way to access parallel timelines instead of going back in time, trying to find a timeline in which Beta Niode does not go nova as it was perhaps a much younger star, or in which the the counterparts of the people of Sarpeidon have developed interstellar flight instead of time travel, allowing them to evacuate Sarpeidon. (or contact the Federation to ask for aid)


I also had another question. This is not an easy one but perhaps people have thought about it.
How would any of you fix the flawed episodes of Star Trek Season 3 if you are able to do something with their concepts or themes?

Hmm, Spock's Brain. Well for starters, rather than Spock's physical brain being stolen, that instead his memory engrams or personality is transferred, leaving Spock a blank.
Or perhaps the idea in which it is copied and Spock encounters later on a computer replica of his own mind, opening the question if this is sort of a copy of Spock's 'soul'.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 02 August 2016 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Hmm, Spock's Brain. Well for starters, rather than Spock's physical brain being stolen, that instead his memory engrams or personality is transferred, leaving Spock a blank.
Or perhaps the idea in which it is copied and Spock encounters later on a computer replica of his own mind, opening the question if this is sort of a copy of Spock's 'soul'.
++++++++++

I tend to subscribe to the notion that Spock basically uploaded a copy of his mind into McCoy at the end of THE WRATH OF KHAN, and that the resurrected Spock is essentially a perfect clone of the original. Probably best not to think about too closely, though.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 August 2016 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I tend to subscribe to the notion that Spock basically uploaded a copy of his mind into McCoy at the end of THE WRATH OF KHAN, and that the resurrected Spock is essentially a perfect clone of the original. Probably best not to think about too closely, though.

I've thought that myself, tho "clone" is not quite the word. The "new" Spock was, after all, re-aged from his own cells.

It's all so complicated, isn't it?

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 02 August 2016 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Yep.
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Allan Summerall
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Posted: 23 August 2016 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I haven't watched much in the way of Third Season episodes aside from "Day of the Dove" , "The Enterprise Incident" & " The Tholian Web". I know I've seen the other episodes at least once or twice in my life but danged if I remember them all that much,so I decided to watch the rest of the season. So far I've watched "All Our Yesterdays", "Way to Eden" & "Whom Gods Destroy". I liked "All Our Yesterdays" for the most part as I remembered reading two "Star Trek" novels by A.C. Crispin that I liked at the time that stemmed from that episode. "Whom Gods Destroy" wasn't the best, but I enjoyed seeing Yvonne Craig as Marta and I liked Garth. "Way to Eden".......yikes!!
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 06 September 2016 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I had not dipped into the Third Season for a long, long time, until yesterday. I discovered that I was remembering it all far too generously. It's remarkable how certain episodes can have little tiny moments that are actually good and yet fail, often terribly, in the entirety of the remainder. 

For example, the very, very beginning of "The Way To Eden," pre-credits, is some nice Star Trek. I enjoyed the chase, the mystery of this vessel deliberately courting suicide. It wasn't anything we'd seen before, and it was neatly done. Of course, I've seen this episode many times over many decades, and it was hardly a surprise who they beamed aboard. But because I liked the set-up so much, that I knew where this story was headed, it was all even more disappointing!

Do we reach?

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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 17 September 2016 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Flipping through channels last night and noticed BBC America showing
"Spock's Brain." I wish there was some sort of algorithm that prevented
anyone who'd never seen a TREK episode from seeing a third season one first.

Third season TREK should be like that last greasy charred remnant from a bag
of fries from Five Guys. You were perfectly satisfied from the first two seasons
but you still crave just a little bit more... and maybe you should have just
stopped with the first two anyway.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 September 2016 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Flipping through channels last night and noticed BBC America showing "Spock's Brain." I wish there was some sort of algorithm that prevented anyone who'd never seen a TREK episode from seeing a third season one first.

As I've mentioned before, a couple of years ago I began introducing one of my 20-something gal pals to STAR TREK, thru selected TOS episodes. She's been thoroughly enjoying them, but unfortunately, early on, was inspired to explore on her own. One day she reported that she had, the previous night, watched "the one with the space hippies."

I told her it was okay for her to watch episodes on her own, but she must promise me to turn off immediately if the opening credits were blue instead of yellow!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 September 2016 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Third season TREK should be like that last greasy charred remnant from a bag of fries from Five Guys. You were perfectly satisfied from the first two seasons but you still crave just a little bit more... and maybe you should have just stopped with the first two anyway.

This. of course, was not an option for old geezers like me. I saw each episode of the Third Season as it was originally broadcast, and could not dismiss the whole season, or I would have had no TREK at all!!

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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 17 September 2016 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I can't imagine the horror for a TREK fan of the original broadcast to sit down
with excitement and watch... "Spock's Brain." It seems OK at first and then
goes horribly wrong very quickly.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 17 September 2016 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I somehow had managed to have never seen "Spock's Brain" until it
was on BBC America yesterday. I wish I could unsee it.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 17 September 2016 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

MICHAEL: I somehow had managed to have never seen "Spock's Brain" until it
was on BBC America yesterday. I wish I could unsee it.

SER: It has so little in common with an average first season episode that it
feels like parody. *That* is the TREK that civilians mock, that civilians are
thinking of when they do their Shatner or Super Spock impersonations. In fact,
I think Super Spock is probably what made some folks think that Data is a
"Spock-like character" (they are actually *very* different).

"Spock's Brain" specifically could have the silhouettes of Joel and the bots in
the corner without much difficulty. It really feels like the type of 1950s B-sci-fi
film they mocked mercilessly.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 September 2016 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

BBC America is now running TOS on Fridays, and, since they recently did a marathon of the first two seasons for the 50th anniversary, they're now showing the third.

Happened to catch most of "The Tholian Web", tonight. I still don't get why it's such a fan-favorite. Yes, there are some good moments and ideas, but the characters--particularly Spock and McCoy--are almost shockingly out of character. Even off-puttingly so. 

As was his way in the third season (.,,and I don't want to say that he was phoning it in, but I kinda think he was phoning it in), Nimoy plays Spock as particularly cold and robotic. And McCoy goes well out of his way to argue--not bicker, argue--with Spock, to the point of pretty much accusing him of making sure Kirk is dead so that he can assume command of the Enterprise. That whole plotline, with McCoy being angry at Spock for risking the ship to try and save Kirk instead of just leaving Tholian space, feels so out of left-field and so wrong that it sinks the whole episode.

After two seasons of clearly-established relationships, it's just shocking. What, after all they've been through together, McCoy wouldn't even consider that Spock just wants to save his friend? And McCoy values saving the ship more that he believes Spock does, to the point of accusing Spock of risking the ship just to make sure that Kirk is dead, so he can take over Kirk's command? Wha--?!?

A good percentage of why the third season is not fantastic comes down to stuff like this. Cartoonish, unsubtle writing, and gross mischaracterizations. Especially the antagonistic relationship which developed between Spock and McCoy, and totally missed the point of what made that relationship work, during the first two seasons.


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 24 September 2016 at 12:26am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 September 2016 at 5:08am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

In the third season the banter between Spock and McCoy turned to genuine dislike. I was uncomfortable watching it, it was so inappropriate.

Another note on seeing "Spock's Brain" for the first time, I knew immediately that something was "off" because of the music. The whole episode sounded wrong.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 September 2016 at 8:27am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Everything seems slightly "off" in the third season. The music sounds, I dunno, cheaper and more cartoony. And many of the sound effects,  cinematography, visual effects, too. To say nothing of writing and acting.


But, yeah, as I was rewatching "The Tholian Web", the Spock/McCoy stuff was just uncomfortable and off-putting. A real downer.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Unlocking this thread to mention that the issue of NEW VISIONS currently "on the drawing board" makes deliberate use of TOS style time travel. Makes my brain wrinkle, but it was the only way to get my story told!
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 21 February 2017 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

... makes deliberate use of TOS style time travel

**

Ehrr, what does that mean? There have been so many types of time travel in Star Trek that I find it difficult to distinguish.
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 21 February 2017 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

There may be a "library" of sorts at work here :-)
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