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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 12:20am | IP Logged | 1  

With everybody complaining about DC and Marvel not knowing what they're doing, their endless "events" driving people away, their ruining our old favorites, etc., it really surprises me that no one is trying to start a viable 3rd Company!  I don't mean Dark Horse or Image, which are both mostly creator-owned books these days (IDW too), or Archie which is a tiny niche publisher.  I'm talking about an honest-to-gosh 3rd Company with potential big sellers like iconic super-heroes.

Dynamite is coming the closest with all its public domain and/or licensed characters like the Shadow, Red Sonja, Tarzan, John Carter, Green Hornet, Zorro, all the Project Superpowers heroes, etc., but, while they've hired some name writers, I just can't buy the stuff because most of the art is amateurish, rushed, or otherwise off-putting.  Still, I'm ready to jump on the moment they step things up.

The question for this thread: What's your favorite 3rd Company?

Past or Present, what 3rd Company did you like the best and which did you think had (or has) the most potential to be up there with the Big Two?

Some possibilities--
CONTINUITY COMICS--Neal Adams created some iconic-looking characters and kept a solid look to the art over most of the line, but the writing just wasn't there.

CROSS-GEN--They invested heavily in fantasy-oriented titles tied together by some sci fi thread, but their best book RUSE didn't need either.  They expanded way too fast and imploded.

ATLAS COMICS (SEABOARD)--I still love some of "Marvel Jr's" first or second issues, but they expanded and imploded even faster than Cross-Gen!  Slow growth, people!

VALIANT. ACCLAIM, DARK HORSE (their connected super-hero titles), IMAGE (their original books), FUTURE COMICS (the last attempt I remember by names I recognized, Bob Layton & Dick Giordano), and a multitude of tiny publishers--they all tried but they all failed by making very obvious mistakes (expanding too fast, not bothering to hire name creators, concentrating on an unattractive tone or genre).  Jim Shooter tried THREE times, picking a very dull house art style every time.

So many legendary creators from the 70's/80's (when the Big Two produced a LOT of material that is being mined for billion dollar movies right now) are still producing!  Except for Jim Starlin and Neal Adams, most of these Masters of the Artform have (by their own volition or by some misguided decisions by the editors and publishers) left the Big Two in favor of doing creator-owned material.  If I had some millions to spare, I would drop a big pile of money in front of legends like Byrne, Perez, Simonson, Ordway, Gulacy, P. Craig Russell, and solid storytellers like Tom Grummett, Kerry Gammill, Keith Pollard, Steve Englehart, Doug Moench, Don McGregor, and many many others and say "Build me a creative empire!"  No matter how much you spent, you'd make it all back and much more with the first billion dollar movie you sell based on the new creations these geniuses would make!

My point is--there's money out there to be invested and to be made, the talent is there, and there is a market in the pop culture right now like never before--all the factors exist for a 3rd Company to take the world by storm!

Second question for this thread: Do you see any up-and-comers?


Edited by Eric Jansen on 15 July 2016 at 4:35am
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 3:55am | IP Logged | 2  

Comics from the new Valiant have impressed me. Consistently solid writing and art has elevated their otherwise unremarkable characters (having never regained the license to the classic Gold Key characters.) If their upcoming movies from Sony succeed, that could make them the "3rd" comic book company of the superhero scene. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 15 July 2016 at 3:57am
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 3  

Another vote for Valiant.  Old Valiant put out a lot of good comics.  New Valiant has been putting out amazing comics for the last four years.  They do crossovers the right way.  They've built their universe the right way.  Their thoughtful approach to what they put out has really paid off.

And on a side note, I know JB doesn't feel any real connection to their characters, but I'd still love to see a JB Eternal Warrior something.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 6:00am | IP Logged | 4  

@Eric Jansen - I liked Tower Comics and the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents. However, they - and a very wide variety of other publishers - fell into the "We're so HIP!:" school of comic books, where the writers felt obligated to make the stories with current slang and events. I've seen main characters turned into super heroes; I've seen "jazzy" stories with characters pseudo slanging all over, and the narrators saying, "It's the hippest! It's the hottest! It's where it's at! Miss it never!"* I've seen grim and gritty and blood thirsty. I've seen leather and pouches.

I think Valiant in the 90s (the Unity era, as it were) made a pretty honest effort, and those books were palatable. But so many missed the boat.

I believe the issue today is that DC and/or Marvel are desperate to keep their stranglehold on super hero comics (which really has never worked), and there just aren't any new concepts that aren't already being used in some form - and any third super hero comic publisher would be getting lawsuits left and right. I suspect it's nigh impossible to start a company under those circumstances.

I haven't been collecting much of comics of any type over the past few years, save for one or two really good exceptions, but I've seen Previews and there are ninety-twelve different web sources for news in comics. Crud, I know more about some comics today than I did when I was actually collecting them! And that's another cautionary indicator... how can you write stories with surprises when you have to promote them three months ahead of time? Spoilers are killing this industry too...

*Yes, I know that DC fell into that grop when Marvel started running 'em up the flagpole.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 6:33am | IP Logged | 5  

Eclipse for me but I just wonder if they were trying too hard to be Marvel or DC, crossing over titles that were simply not compatible.

Loved Liberty Project though.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 6:33am | IP Logged | 6  

I liked Malibu's Ultraverse line before Marvel bought and gutted it.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 7  

I agree with Michael about Ultraverse.  It's a shame what happened to it.
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 8  

Comico!   I loved The Elementals.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 9  

Back in the day, I enjoyed several titles from First Comics (American Flagg, E-Man, Warp, Mars) and a couple from Pacific (Captain Victory.) I purchased any number of independent titles over the years. The almost-guaranteed short run was both a selling point and a drawback. 

These days, with heavily computerized coloring, glossy pages, and high price points, comics themselves don't appeal to me much. Trying to jump in on something new or try something old that's been brought back holds little appeal for me anymore. When I do try something, either the amateur level art body-slams me out of the book or there's ultimately no "there" there. 

I fully acknowledge that it might just be me. Comics just aren't what I do for fun anymore. 

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Marc Cheek
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 10  

Comico!   I loved The Elementals.

**

Me too! Also, as Brian mentioned, First had some good titles (American Flagg and Grimjack were two that I enjoyed), and Pacific had a few good ones as well. Now, I buy more titles from Dark Horse than any other publisher.
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John Popa
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 11  

I loved the first couple years of Shooter's Valiant and for a little while afterward it was still fun (and Bob Hall's Shadowman run is a long-time favorite.)

Otherwise I'd probably go with Wildstorm as a favorite, I liked the WildCATS and Stormwatch stuff and as time went on and they were doing stuff like The Authority and Planetary too, I really enjoyed their line of books. Plus I enjoyed most of the ABC and Cliffhanger lines.

I have no idea what's up and coming, I mostly read creator-owned books and the Archie horror stuff and that's about it these days.

Edited by John Popa on 16 July 2016 at 8:39am
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 12  

I loved PACIFIC, ECLIPSE, and FIRST--but for all their creator-led stuff.  (I didn't say "creator-owned" because I'm not sure how it worked for things like DREADSTAR, AMERICAN FLAGG, and JON SABLE where other creators took over after Starlin, Chaykin, and Grell moved on.  What WAS the deal there?)

Do we think that Marvel tanked MALIBU on purpose?  Malibu seemed to be doing everything right--they actually advertised, they had distinct characters that stood out, movie deals were being talked about--but I've heard Marvel bought them just for their coloring system.

WILDSTORM was the best that Image had, but they kept undercutting their own concepts--WILDCATS was the new X-MEN, STORMWATCH really had potential, and a lot of the Jim Lee-designed characters really could have gone somewhere.  People were talking about GRIFTER like he was the new Wolverine!  Moving to DC and rebooting finished them off.

VALIANT made waves when it had Dr. Solar, Turok, and Magnus, but their remaining characters just don't do it for me.  But Valiant DOES seem to be doing things right--hiring some real talent, not growing too fast, having a cohesive company look and universe.  Can you Valiant fans recommend any specific books?
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