| Author |
|
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2319
|
| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
My question is--at what point is it no longer a swipe?
In that Roger Stern story, it's clear that tracing/lightboxing somebody else's work is clearly a swipe.
In that Palmer STAR WARS cover, almost everything is changed from the original STAG cover--except the positions of the two main figures show that the artist must have had the original cover somewhere nearby. The layout of the second is inspired by the first, but it's certainly at least a different level of "swipe" than the lightbox story.
Sometimes, I have Neal Adams clippings nearby when I'm drawing to help give me the "feel" I want, but if I change the angle of the head, the position of the body, and have totally different backgrounds, is that still a swipe?
Is it only a swipe if, by comparing the "inspiring" piece right next to the "inspired" piece, an outside observer can spot the similarities? And is it automatically an homage if one acknowledges the original inspiration (by writing "after" so and so on the piece itself or even by mentioning it in the letters page or somewhere else besides the cover)?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6640
|
| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
"And don't do any of that if you can hire someone to do it for you"
That is hilarious!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16464
|
| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Eric Jansen wrote:
| ...My question is--at what point is it no longer a swipe?... |
|
|
Okay, I realize that this is a game of semantics, but here goes my view:
A "swipe" is an artist that intentionally, well, swipes the layout/composition of the work from another artist. In this sense, the swipe is not generally acknowledged.
Sometimes an artist swipes to be cute, sometimes to add his or her own spin on the original, sometimes to evoke an earlier work more directly, and sometimes because they artist may not have the creative ability to come up with a distinct composition on his or her own. There are many varied reasons for swiping, some deceitful, others more respectful and intending to somehow pay respect to an earlier work in some manner.
An "homage" can be an uncredited swipe, but more often an intentional homage does credit the original piece. With homages, it seems to me that the artist clearly knows that the audience most likely to view his or her work will get the homage and recognize that it is based on an earlier piece from another artist. No concentrated effort is being made to hide the inspiration. In fact, part of the fun for the artist is that the audience "gets" the reference.
It is not done because the artist lacks ability to create his or her own compositions, figure work, or layout. It's both done to be cute, and to honor, in a way, that past work.
Rob Liefeld and Greg Land may be the modern kings of swiping (as opposed to homages). They seem to use it as a crutch and to make up for a lack in creativity. Land is particularly frustrating, because he is a really good artist, even without relying on swipes. David Mack also is another artist that, like Land, relies more heavily on swipes than an artist of his caliber needs to, or should rely on them. These artists, I feel, are not creating homages, as a rule, because often the audience is not meant to recognize the swipe, and the consistent use of swipes points more to either a lack of ability or laziness, or both,.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 15 June 2016 at 6:41pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
When I was setting my course toward becoming a Pro, I was also returning to comics after a hiatus of about 5 years. Much I had not seen! Which tripped me up at one point, when I became enamored of the art of Esteban Maroto. I swiped his stuff like crazy, and only later realized that he (or his studio, I wasn't sure) were also swiping everything in sight. So swiping Maroto could often turn out to be swiping Neal Adams or Joe Kubert second hand!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8861
|
| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
John Byrne wrote:
| Roughly, don't draw what you can swipe, don't swipe what you can trace, don't trace what you can cut out and paste in, and don't do any of that if you can hire someone to do it for you. |
|
|
Gotta love Wally Wood. Best of all, when in doubt, black it out.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Steve Gumm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1455
|
| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
I can see the inspiration from that Kubert piece here in one of my favorite of your posters:
You gotta love Puck!
Edited by Steve Gumm on 16 June 2016 at 5:22am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 5:25am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Yup. Already noted that in another thread.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Steve Gumm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1455
|
| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
slight thread drift-
John, if you did a similar poster for the X-Men, who would you have for the large central character?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
John, if you did a similar poster for the X-Men, who would you have for the large central character?•• Depends on how "complete" I was being. Professor X seems the natural choice, tho over the years I have noticed many X-fans insist he is not actually part of the team. Minus X, the first choice would be Cyclops.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Steve Gumm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1455
|
| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Cool! I was thinking Cyclops would be a good fit, but with Wolverine being a fan favorite, maybe you'd pick him (I thought his mask would be a bit problematic to fit characters around tho).
Thanks for the answer... now I'm imagining how darn cool that poster would be!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12551
|
| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 6:23am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Joe Kubert's so good, he takes my breath away. Who wouldn't swipe from him!?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
I thought [Wolverine's] mask would be a bit problematic to fit characters around tho…•• No more than Hawkman's!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
