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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8029
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 1
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Kitty's hair was not all Smith's fault. The story took place during the 6-month gap in X-MEN#192, which was when she returned from the KITTY PRYDE AND WOLVERINE limited series. In that series her hair got cropped short when she became a ninja (yes, really). And she had long hair again by X-MEN#193. So Smith had to draw her in the midst of growing her hair back.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132227
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 2
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Oh, sure! THAT they insisted be kept on-model!My comments stand, tho.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30884
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 3
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6-month gap in X-MEN#192, which was when she returned from the KITTY PRYDE AND WOLVERINE limited series. In that series her hair got cropped short *********** Oh yeah! Now I remember her in it! He drew it a helluva lot better than Milgrom did, for sure.
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Brandon Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 4
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I've mentioned before being in an LCS in Chicago when the X-MEN issue came out that introduced Maddie Pryor. I looked at the last page and had no idea what was going on. I asked the owner, behind the counter, and he said "I think she's supposed to look like Jean." But what she looked like was a Paul Smith Redhead. Nothing about her looked like any prior (ahem) version of Jean.
**********
It was unfortunate that Madelyne Pryor wasn't introduced before Smitty came on the book. When I saw that last page introduction, I didn't realize that she was supposed to look identical to Jean (never having seen Smitty's version of Jean before); I figured she was just supposed to look similar.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7602
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 5
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It took me a bit of internal debate to decide if she was or wasn't supposed to look like Jean, I came down on the side that she was based on Scott's reaction and that it was a cliff hanger. It shouldn't have been that hard.
But, let's all pause and marvel at the fact that the bullpen were redrawing JB Thor illustrations at the time he was drawing FF (possibly WCA?). Seriously????
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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6594
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 6
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I love Smith's Kitty hair. It looks like ribbon candy, and I'm a serious fat
kid.
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Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5798
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 7
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The X-MEN/ALPHA FLIGHT book looked really good. I couldn't
remember the story to save my life, though.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132227
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 8
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Smitty's "I Draw What I Draw" approach (again, not a criticism) probably had the most profound effect upon Kitty. Virtually overnight she went from "young SIgourney Weaver" to Brooke Shields. And, of course, other artists followed that model.The first of my "ordinary teenage girls" who turned into jailbait once I let go of them.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30884
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 9
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It was Smith on the book when I first came aboard. I never felt she was made to be "sexy" or "hot" when he was on it. I was just a couple years younger than her and saw her as a cute nerdy-type. And what a treat it was when I finally got those back issues that introduced her. I didn't really see that different a character. It was after Smith left and, as mentioned above, she got turned into a ninja and started really turning a 180 from the cute nerd that I felt she was turing into something else. Then she went to Excalibre, and I lost all contact with her until Joss Whedon brought her back. She's still one of my favorite X-Men and it's a crush that has survived to this day.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2291
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| Posted: 15 June 2016 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 10
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I've known for a while now about DC redoing some faces to keep characters "on model" but the first I'm hearing about Marvel doing the same thing is right here on this forum. I am very surprised to hear about anybody redrawing JOHN BYRNE as his style WAS the Marvel model for so many readers of my age.
I have to think that the process was not applied across the board though. I first started reading Marvel towards the end of Steve Englehart and Sal Buscema's run on CAPTAIN AMERICA and Frank Robbins replaced Sal for the end of Englehart's big Serpent Crown/Nomad epic there and my 10 or 11 year-old self had a seriously tough time accepting such a wildly different style especially in the middle of a continued story. Sal's style was certainly "on model" and fit quite nicely with Cap renditions by his brother John or John Romita or, somehow, even Gene Colan or Jack Kirby. (I have a t-shirt that combines a Colan Iron Man, a Romita Thor, and a Sal Buscema Captain America--and they all look fine together!) But Robbins threw me for a loop--and I LIKE Robbins! Well, I liked him on INVADERS, but his look became "World War II" for me.
I'm pretty sure I could find examples over at DC too of characters not really being kept to a particular model. I thought Dick Dillin's version of Wonder Woman over in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA was sexy and dynamic and elsewhere she, well, wasn't.
Did both companies play favorites? They made sure to "correct" Superman and Spider-Man's faces but didn't bother for Wonder Woman and, say, Iron Man? (I'm pretty sure when Jim Starlin drew Iron Man in AVENGERS ANNUAL #7, he didn't draw the "nose" Iron Man's armor had been saddled with for quite a while over in his own series.)
At what point, do you think, does (did) being "on model" give way to a particular artist's style?
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 11
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ITEM: It's a funny discussion about "on style" and Mr. Byrne's art. I recall a time when the art standard at Marvel WAS John Byrne... emphasized by the fact that the majority of headshots of characters that I saw were from the corner box... a vast majority of which seemed to be JB art.
ITEM: Art started going off model when the artists started becoming more important than the characters they were drawing. This is still extant today, to a ridiculous extent. Pick a week, go to your LCS, and try to find three comics with Batman or Captain America drawn the same way. Yeah, you can blame the movies for this a little... but that's not where it started.
ITEM: Alpha Flight/X-Men was a terrible book. Just an excuse to use Asgard as a setting and get a good fight sequence. Not even between the two teams, but just two random groupings. And "curing" the X-Men and Alphans? When everyone and their dog knew it couldn't possibly last? I'm still sorry I wasted money on it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 June 2016 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 12
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ITEM: It's a funny discussion about "on style" and Mr. Byrne's art. I recall a time when the art standard at Marvel WAS John Byrne... emphasized by the fact that the majority of headshots of characters that I saw were from the corner box... a vast majority of which seemed to be JB art.•• Still boggles my mind!!!!
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