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John Byrne
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Posted: 14 July 2016 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

What qualifies as "positive buzz"? The first one was praised in some quarters for making STAR TREK "cool again."
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 14 July 2016 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Looks like they lose the Enterprise and then end up in a smaller ship with nacels coming off a primary hull? Sort of like the old Romulan Warbird?



If that chameleon piece of shit is a Gorn, I'm double-out
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Emery, Idris Elba says his character isn't a Gorn.
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 15 July 2016 at 3:31am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Hmm, I am rather in doubt about the 'positive reception', someone on a Star Trek forum also brought up how positive Into Darkness was receives be people who got to see a prerelease viewing.

So for me this is just the marketing machine running on full power.
I want to see the reactions of the regular fans, and even then I will decide for myself if I like this movie or not.

And even all the positive things can not take away that I find this somewhat of a frat boy movie such as the whole motorcycle scene or some of the so called jokes.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 18 July 2016 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

So far the movie is getting very good reviews.
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 22 July 2016 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Probably best to put any thoughts and commentary about Star Trek Beyond in this thread rather than opening a whole new one.

* warning spoilers *








During Star Trek Beyond the Enterprise is destroyed by Krall's drone ships (perhaps not much of a spoiler as it is seen in the trailer but I feel it is fair to warn readers), only to be quickly replaced with an identical Enterprise A.

Why is the ship destroyed in the first place as it does not add that much to the plot. Why doesn't Krall instead capture the Enterprise and use it as a 'trojan horse' to get his troops and weapon into the Yorktown station, and Kirk's goal is to stop Krall from killing the people on the station and taking back his ship.

Reason why I am saying this is because the destruction of the Enterprise is pointless, it is not a 'character' at all on par with the original Enterprise which destruction in The Search for Spock really had an impact on the audience as it was as much a part of the crew as Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the others were.
The ship that took them to various places, got them out of dangerous situations, and helped them stop several threats such as a giant organism draining star systems of energy and a doomsday device that destroyed planets.

The Enterprise in Abrams movies is just the transport that gets the crew from plot to plot.
Heck in Beyond Kirk even considers quitting Starfleet so being a Starfleet captain and an explorer is apparently not as important for him.


Speaking of Kirk, becoming a vice admiral on his age? Doesn't he consider himself damn lucky he managed to become a captain in such a short span of time without having to go through the career ladder?

It really seems inappropriate for a supposed professional organization like Starfleet to promote an officer that quickly through the rank.
You would think such a position of influence and responsibility would be for people who have been in the service for at least a decade or two have have proven themselves through their experiences and results of their assignments.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 22 July 2016 at 10:08pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

So, the movie seems to be getting very good review, some even from people whose opinions I trust. It's said to feel very much like a big-budget episode of TOS, with the characters acting much more like themselves. Huh.

Of course, I'll be waiting until it comes to TV. The whole recent George Takei thing alone is enough to make me not want to support the people making these movies. And, twice bitten...

Fact of the matter is, it's too little, too late. I have no interest in these versions of the characters. It might have worked with this cast, had they stayed closer to the source material, instead of completely disrespecting it and pretty much tossing it out.


At the end of the day, I kinda think that the whole time-travel/"have their cake and eat it too" approach has come back to bite them. After all, if this was a true reboot which was merely based upon TOS, in the same vein as, say, Marvel's Ultimate books, then Gay Sulu or British/White Khan would be perfectly acceptable. But, thanks to the whole time-travel bit, any attempts to reconcile this new canon with the old are doomed to failure, because the disparities are just too great, and the whole time-divergence too poorly thought-out.


Of course, it all comes down to one simple question: If these films were not dressed up in the STAR TREK brand-trappings (names, tropes, etc.), would anyone care about them? 
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 12:00am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

A good question to ask with any franchise film. Is the story strong enough to sustain the audience if it weren't tied to this brand-name? Is there enough here that audiences would be happy with it if it were simply War Among the Stars: The Power Awakens? Spiritbreakers? National Champion: Can't We Be Civil?

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 1:01am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Exactly. Somewhere along the way, the process of making these films became so broken that the trappings have become the lightning-rod for attention, rather than story and characters.

No one would care about the GHOSTBUSTERS remake if it had a different name, and wasn't banking on brand-name recognition (and the gender-swapping controversy).

I'd also wager that NUTREK '09 would be viewed as a harmless, forgettable popcorn movie, if it was marketed as Generic Space Adventure, rather than STAR TREK. Same with WAR AMONG THE STARS: THE POWER AWAKENS. Swap out, say, Nicolas Cage or Keanu Reeves for Harrison Ford, and people probably wouldn't care about that cranky space pirate guy suffering from a severe case of death. Or that old hobo with the robot hand who lives on the island.


Yeah, okay, new rule: whenever a reboot/remake comes out, perform the thought exercise of pretending that all of the characters' names are different, the trappings are different, and that the film has no connection to any existing property. Does it tell a satisfying and well-crafted story? Are the characters and their problems interesting? Does the film stand on its own as a complete entity unto itself?
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Jason Scott
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Despite myself I found this latest one somewhat enjoyable. It was certainly a big step up from the last two, with a plot that ultimately turns out to be similar to a few of the old episodes. (Just with a lot more expensive big action sequences.)
It did seem like there was a real effort to bring back the Spock-McCoy interaction, and there was a lovely tip of the hat towards the old classic crew and Leonard Nimoy in particular towards the end.

It was such a wasted opportunity though, for them not to introduce a replacement Enterprise that was closer to the old designs. Seemed really foolish for them not to do that. At least it would have put a real smile on folks' faces as they left the theatre.


Edited by Jason Scott on 23 July 2016 at 5:47am
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

... it if it were simply War Among the Stars: The Power Awakens? Spiritbreakers? National Champion: Can't We Be Civil?

*******

Heh heh, I really like these alternative titles. They are already a lot more amusing than most of those films were.

Hmm, want to try a few of my own: man/machine law enforcer, space firebringer (Prometheus but my attempt probably sucks), Space Adventure: The Beginning (Star Trek 2009), Martial Arts Reptile Warriors.

*******

Does the film stand on its own as a complete entity unto itself?

******

Then a lot of movies fall short because they seem more like an imitation of something better than actually establishing something new and interesting themselves.





* Warning: spoilers! *

BTW, it is really clear now from Beyond that Star Trek Enterprise is basically the prequel to this.
The Military Assault Command Operations (MACO) and the Xindi war are mentioned.

So I guess Picard and Co already created the alternative universe that Nero continued to mess up further.
We can thus pretty much ignore Enterprise and the new ST movies when we want more material in the original Star Trek Universe.

Oh and one of the motivations of the main villain is revenge, again.

So I guess like Warhammer 40K which IP's slogan is "In the future there is only war", new Star Trek's slogan should be "In the future there is only revenge."

Just been reading some of the information on the antagonist such as the reasoning behind his behavior which Justin Lin talks about in an interview.

"If we really want to deconstruct what the Federation means, we need to have an antagonist with a valid point of view. It can't just be someone twirling their moustache. For the audience, when they hear [Krall's reasons] they might not agree with them, but they have to accept it's a valid point of view."

What valid point of view? It is mentioned that this guy resented the Federation for seeking peaceful coexistence instead of war and lethal competition.
He is pissed that the Federation is not imperialistic and expansion driven through military conquest? (how is that a deconstruction of what the Federation is about, wouldn't a deconstruction bring up more subjects like... I don't know the loss of cultural individuality for example in favor of trying to create one single galactic culture?)

Pal, join the Klingons, I am sure that they would love to have you on board, you believe in a lot of the same things as they do.

Got this from the Trek Wiki article, hope this is not cross site trolling



Edited by Marten van Wier on 23 July 2016 at 6:07am
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Ray Brady
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"So I guess Picard and Co already created the alternative universe that Nero continued to mess up further."

Did you mean to say Archer?
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I can't speak for Martin, but the possible divergence point of the Enterprise timeline and presumably now the Kelvin one as well is an open question with lots of potential answers. "Star Trek: First Contact" gave us an alternate timeline in which the Borg attack Earth during the time of Zefram Cochrane's development of warp drive. The overall shape of the timeline was preserved, but the details changed. People died in Borg attacks who did not die in that way in the previous timeline. All of this could have led to Archer and the NX-01 and now, the Kelvin, if in fact it is in the same continuity. If so, it was Picard and co. who changed what happened.

There's also a DS:9 story in which Sisko travels back in time and takes the place of a historic leader who is assassinated "ahead of schedule." Again, the overall shape remains, but the details change. Is there a devil in those details that brought about an even earlier timeline shift? Anybody step on a butterfly? 

Of course, the alternate timeline people have gone back in time as well, visiting Carbon Creek and getting mixed up in the Temporal War. Whose history did they wind up in? Their's? Our's? Are they the same up to the point of divergence, or does the whole thing become a separate timeline once it splits from the main stem, creating its own history along with its own present and future? What if you really can't go home again? 

We could kick it all the way back to City on the Edge of Forever if we wanted to, but for the Guardian of Forever telling us at the end that all is as it once was and that history had resumed its former shape. Unless he doesn't know what he's talking about or is Kenobi-ing us about the whole thing...

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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I do kind of mean Archer Ray Brady, but more that the Borg Collective and Picard and the Ent E crew altered time to begin with to give rise to the Star Trek Enterprise timeline that would connect to the Kelvin timeline.

That does bring back the question: is Spock Prime really Spock Prime, and not just future Spock from the Kelvin timeline, gone back in time just as Nero did and history was just altered even further. And that in the original timeline Spock may have lived out his live on a Romulus that was never destroyed by the Hobus Nova because it did not exists or was just a regular nova with no such nonsense as it increasing in power and the shockwave traveling at speeds faster than those of light.

I rather go with that one as I honestly don't care about the Enterprise/Kelvin timeline.
But what does it matter anyway, unless I somehow manage to get my hands on the Star Trek franchise (which I would make some changes to) none of us really have anything to say about how it is being developed on the television screen. (what I would do? declare Enterprise and the new Trek movies non canon or just some 'side timeline' unconnected to the Prime one for starters)
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Tyler Kloster
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I really, really loved this movie in just about every way. I hate Into Darkness myself, but if Star Trek Beyond doesn't win over people who object to the reboot movie series, then nothing ever will.
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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply



I've added a SPOILER alert to the subject line, so if you don't want to know story details, stop reading now!!

And if you want to discuss the movie, no further need to give spoiler warnings.



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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 23 July 2016 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I've just finished watching the film. I enjoyed the first five minutes more than the entirety of the first two films. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done before this is something remotely related to Star Trek. Having written that I can now write that this film has done a better job at having the characters behave like they should. There's still Plenty of room for improvement. My two biggest complaints have to do with the dialogue and They are still failing to show Kirk's intelligence as a Captain. His first reaction is to still go rushing in phasers blasting away. His actions are that of a soldier not a leader.

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Paul Newland
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Posted: 24 July 2016 at 4:58am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I think Beyond does a lot of things better than the previous two.  I certainly didn't come away with nagging irritation at gaping plot holes although there were a few nagging issues.

They put in some decent reverential nods, covered off some potential plot holes with a few sensible one liners, kept a lid on plot-busting magical technology, although they had to go a little out of their way to do and my view is that it's more sensible not to go there in the first place but hey ho.

Jaylah seems to occupy space that could have worked for Saavik if they'd allowed her to live up to her back story.  She's a very engaging character and a welcome addition.  The female dynamic is more evenly spread in this one, which gets a thumbs up from me, even if disappointed that there's no Marcus, Chapel, or Rand.  Spoiler: Uhura gets to rescue herself.  Nice touch that saved a lot of time.

I wish that there had been a few more recognisable aliens - I'm fed up of green Orion women being more prominent than recognisable Federation races.  The Orions are not even Federation members!  What's wrong with blue skin and a white wig instead of green skin and a red wig dammit?

Pine was exceptional and even Scotty was less annoying.  The least convincing this time was Quinto.  The friendship between Kirk and Spock seemed forced but the Spock/McCoy buddy section was well done.  Yelchin contributed in a way that felt organic and not stupid this time and his final scene was a fitting tribute to both him and the character.  There's a toast that is all the more poignant due to what happened to the poor guy.

Pine's shock jock Kirk is frustrating at times but they've started playing it for laughs now.  After kicking the ship better in STiD he shoots the ship into working in this one.  I see what they did there lol.

I must be a fuddy duddy though because I found myself wishing they'd keep using the less flashy older vessel instead of upgrading to a spangly new ship

Krall's motivation was very odd but can be dismissed by the notion of the alien machinery influencing his judgment I suppose.   The space station looked amazing.  It's a bit futuristic compared to other TOS stations but a wonderful idea if you consider how rare class m planets, dwarf planets and moons would be.
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 25 July 2016 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

My wife and I loved it.  Certainly a step up from Into Darkness, and while just as entertaining as the first Pine film, it holds together from a plot standpoint much better.  Pegg clearly understands story structure and theme way better than Orci or Kurtzman AND I think he understands the characters better.

Only caveat (and this here is a spoiler) is that I'm getting a little tired of the enemy being a disgruntled Starfleet insider.  Used very well here, now lets have some other motivation.
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 25 July 2016 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Loved it.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 25 July 2016 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I liked it quite a bit, didn't love it.  My wife, who is the much bigger Star Trek fan and is fine with the new crew, was less than enthused.  Though she absolutely loved the Spock/McCoy interactions.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 26 July 2016 at 12:57am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

It was definitely a lot better than the trailer made it out to be, which looked pretty bad to me. I thought it was the best of the three reboot movies. My girlfriend who isn't much of a Star Trek fan didn't care for it much and she did like the other two, so this one seems to be geared more towards actual fans of the original series, although there really isn't a whole lot of thinking involved and lots of stuff blowing up. But the McCoy and Spock stuff was fun and I feel like it was a bit more Star Trek than Fast and the Furious which I worried it wouldn't be. 

Also, the whole Sulu being bisexual/gay thing was just one scene of him meeting and kissing his boyfriend and walking off carrying his child with him, lasted every bit of a few seconds.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 26 July 2016 at 1:57am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

In these days of Hi Definition,it annoyed me that much of the film was so dark/murky! It was an OK film,nothing special,a lot of sound and fury,and the motorbike scene and defeat the enemy with a song scenes made me cringe,soooo corny!
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Marten van Wier
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Posted: 26 July 2016 at 5:21am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I have not seen the movie but I find the song bit so ridiculous.
From what I understand it has to do with interfering radio frequencies, but as someone on the internet already mentioned, space is full of radio signal sources (Stars, nebulas, black holes, neutron stars for example)

Plus why would a song be needed if you just need to send a disrupting signal on certain frequencies?

I find it a cheap reason to insert some Beasty Boys' numbers.

heh I think an Anime used a song as a weapon. In cartoons and Anime that is a plot device that can be used, not in a setting that is suppose to be a bit more realistic.

From what I have read an understand the movie is simply okay/passable because the preceding movie(s) was not very good, but it just is not a very impressive Star Trek movie or science fiction movie on its own.
It is just 'okay', something to pass the time with when you have nothing else to do.


Edited by Marten van Wier on 26 July 2016 at 11:18am
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 26 July 2016 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Marten in terms of NuTrek it is impressive.
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Paul Newland
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Posted: 26 July 2016 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Yeah, I wasn't wowed by it but it didn't annoy the hell out of me.  Jaylah was pretty decent and it gave Yelchin a reasonable send off.

Saving the world through the power of music was ripped straight out of Mars Attacks from what I recall ;-P

The finale was very silly, victim to why not use the transporter to resolve all their problems but, lets be honest, that applies to about 70% of Trek.
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