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Topic: STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - New TV Series Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 02 March 2019 at 2:10am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

 Rob Ocelot wrote:
I do find it interesting that two people within minutes of each other throw up the glaring exception from an episode of the mostly well-regarded third season.  

I certainly hope this was tongue-in-cheek!  Sorry. Can't tell.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 02 March 2019 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yeah, its also not an exception.  I appreciate that in the present, its hard to mentally recreate American culture in the late 60's, but just having a Japanese man and an African-American woman on the bridge as respected officers in the crew was making a huge statement at the time.  The kiss in Plato's Stepchildren seems like nothing to us now, but the network got violent hate mail and a bunch of southern affiliate stations refused to air the episode.

I remember when Riker fell in love with the androgynous alien from a repressive culture as a commentary on sexuality and gender.  I remember the huge flap when DS9 had two women kiss.

What I don't remember is the people who are now so upset about DSC getting all upset when Voyager came out.  Voyager, which very deliberately chose a female captain.  Which deliberately assorted its bridge crew to have a Native American first officer, an Asian officer, two African-American actors playing officers, etc.  I don't even remember a bunch of people screaming about the new Vulcan character being black even though that hadn't been depicted before.

So what's changed?  DSC's crew is, if anything, less diverse than Voyager.  After all, the Discovery has had two captains, and both were middle-aged white men.  The only difference is that now we have a whole bunch of white males who feel threatened in their dominant position in Western culture.  I mean, throwing a bone to minorities was okay when they were firmly in charge, but now that they might not be for long they're worried about being replaced.  Which makes every character that isn't a white male an 'attack' somehow and the more prominent the character, the more violently they react.
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Bill Collins
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Posted: 02 March 2019 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Steve, i have your answer...The Internet!
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 02 March 2019 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

What I don't remember is the people who are now so upset about DSC getting all upset when Voyager came out.  Voyager, which very deliberately chose a female captain.  Which deliberately assorted its bridge crew to have a Native American first officer, an Asian officer, two African-American actors playing officers, etc.  I don't even remember a bunch of people screaming about the new Vulcan character being black even though that hadn't been depicted before.

——-

I recall some grumbling, but they were mostly dismissed as grumps rather than being the “valiant defenders of Star Trek in the face of the culture wars”. 
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 02 March 2019 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Rob, no bait was intended. I'd like to know how you can suss out an uncreative "checklist" show from an honestly intended creative endeavor aside from the racial makeup of the cast. 

You seem to want programming to acknowledge that "things have evened and equalled out in the present (and extending that to our future)." You're summarily declaring the battle for equality over, is that it? Things have reached a level in our culture you're comfortable with and everyone just needs to stop here? The Civil Rights Movement has accomplished all it needs to and everyone can just go home now? Rob says it's all over!

You posit that Star Trek simply presented a better future and that no one ever discussed it or questioned it. You're ignoring "The Savage Curtain," "Patterns of Force," and "The Squire of Gothos" among others, of course, but hey, those didn't upset you back then as shows today seem to. Shows today are somehow different. More agenda driven. Scarier.

Diversity in casting is apparently the reason shows are too long, seasons are underwritten, plots don't come together, and there's flouride in all the water. If we could just fix this, without ever saying what part of it needs to be fixed, heaven forfend, we could all have our beloved genre shows back again, safe and sound without all those... well, y'know, we can't say it, but you understand, of course. 

Am I reading you wrong on this, Rob, and if so, where?

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Steve De Young
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Posted: 07 March 2019 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Well, sorry conspiracy theorists.  In tonight’s episode, Pike had a flashback, and it was footage from The Cage.
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Tyler Kloster
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Posted: 08 March 2019 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

That...was amazing. And heartbreaking. 
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Tyler Kloster
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Posted: 08 March 2019 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

One thing I do struggle, on a minor scale, is the varying episode lengths. Last week's clocked in at barely 40 minutes, while this one was almost a full hour, not counting the ads.

It does throw off the pacing a little bit when one week the show is starting to wrap up at about 35 minutes in and another week it's barely halfway through.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 08 March 2019 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'm fine with that.  It's the advantage streaming services have over traditional networks.  Allow the story to dictate the runtime rather than forcing an arbitrary time limit that all episodes must adhere to.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 08 March 2019 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Re: “sorry conspiracy theorists.” 

That is exactly what went through my head—right after I finished cheering at the screen! That opening certainly is something I can’t remember Star Trek (hmm...or any other TV show) ever doing before, and not many shows *could* do that I guess... sharper minds may please correct me if I am wrong. 

(p.s. after Discovery I snuck out to see Captain Marvel and the late show was packed with 40-somethings, 50-somethings, what looked like a high school football team...and five women. Everyone had a great time so I can confirm that—including this Discovery episode—yesterday in general was a bad day for the YouTube Incel Conspiracy Theory Industrial Complex. Even Paul Manafort had a better day! Man are some heads going to explode after they torrent up Captain Marvel for a hatewatch!) p.p.s. No spoilers from me, but: both extra credit scenes deliver.

Re: varying episode lengths

Great observation—I was aware they were different but not by how much until I went back and scrolled through. Wow. I guess it doesn’t hurt, it’s kinda interesting, it allows for story beats and transitions to come from left field as opposed to when we have been conditioned to expect them (the antithesis of ST)—but it probably contributes to that feeling that pops up now and then that there has been some wacky last minute editing and reshuffling in both seasons. I should do a YouTube video about that... :)


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