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Topic: STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - New TV Series Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 02 November 2018 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Wait, my bad... Discovery IS totally enjoyable. I just meant that in my old age I am trying not to get too hung up on where and how it fits into the Trek universe, whether the phasers and Constitution class starships have been redesigned for no good reason, and the changeovers in the creative team. 

This would be amazing STAR TREK if I:

a) Turned off the critical thinking portions of my brain 
b) Squinted at the TV screen.

However, I don't deny that it's a slickly-produced show that looks good and is entertaining to a reasonable degree.   It's just leaving me a bit wanting in the STAR TREK department.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 02 November 2018 at 6:56pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 03 November 2018 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuMyfI_WM7E
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 05 November 2018 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Ahhh, can always trust Midnight's Edge to postulate the absolute worst-case scenarios and conspiracy theories.   They are particularly down on DISCO and have been for the past year or so -- so take their viewpoint with some salt.   

While I don't think the problems with the show are as dire as ME is making them out to be I do think they may have to retool some aspects of the show if they plan to keep it going for the long run.  I have a feeling CBS/Paramount may take the easier road and cancel this once the other shows they have planned are about to air or airing.   It's not that DISCO is entirely terrible (though I do think it's a somewhat poor example of STAR TREK) but once PICARD gets rolling I can see them wanting to put their money behind Patrick Stewart's name as the flagship show.   DISCO at that point will have served it's purpose -- to get the STAR TREK brand back on the small screen and in the minds of TV viewers.  PICARD seems to be the show everyone (both the producers, execs, and --most importantly-- the viewers) want.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 07 November 2018 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Ahhh, can always trust Midnight's Edge to postulate the absolute worst-case scenarios and conspiracy theories.   They are particularly down on DISCO and have been for the past year or so -- so take their viewpoint with some salt.   
++++++++

I seem to have missed the part where the past decade of the once-great STAR TREK franchise hasn’t been a worst-case scenario. I find listening to Midnight’s Edge (...and Doomcock!) reporting on (...and ranting about!) STD to be incredibly therapeutic. And their inside sources and information have proven reliable, more often than not.

Not that I have any particular interest in discussing STD, of course. But I do feel obliged to report on these ongoing devopments to the three or so people who watch and/or care about the show.

The best and most telling comment for that video would be, “When fans actively want to see a STAR TREK show get cancelled, then you’re doing something wrong”. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 07 November 2018 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5mmZO_M7jos
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 08 November 2018 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

That Doomcock video was... erm... interesting.   I was laughing so hard at their 'soiled hotel bed and Tide pods' analogy that I may have to send them a cleaning bill.   Certainly entertaining, perhaps moreso than watching DISCOVERY itself.

Here's a video I found really interesting and really demonstrates why I feel DISCO isn't really STAR TREK in an overall tonal sense:


It's also noteworthy the majority of the scenes they break down from 'classic' STAR TREK come from ENTERPRISE, which despite it's continuity sins does follow the same tried and true methods of filmcraft, lighting, direction, and line delivery that have served all previous STAR TREK iterations (and at least five decades of television too) very well -- something that I never thought before about ENT -- and to be honest I don't think I've watched a lick of ENT in the 15 years since it folded.  

The counter argument to this analysis is that DISCO represents in some way a forward progression for STAR TREK -- that by somehow breaking all of the rules for how good watchable television is made they are setting a new standard that others are going to pick up on and follow.

There's a striking similarily in this to things I see on the electronic music production discussion boards I frequent.   On almost a monthly basis someone starts a thread asking something along the lines of "Do I really need to learn how to read music?".   Of course someone brings up the old chestnut of how some jazz muscians or successful modern artists don't know how to read music and get along just fine.  They miss the point that these 'unlearned' musicians are/were exceptional in other areas that made formal learning redundant -- they still fundamentally understood the underlying mechanics and mathematics of music even if they didn't gain that knowledge in a traditional way.  What the "I don't wanna learn music, cuz it's hard" types fail to understand is you need to learn the rules and work within the system before you can consciously break the rules and strike out on your own.  Instead, they just want to make up their own rules and learn the shortcuts before anything else.

That's the feeling I get from DISCO.  They are trying so hard to do something so different from any STAR TREK before it that they miss the mark for what actually made STAR TREK worth watching and a viable franchise in the first place.

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 08 November 2018 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The narrator's constant use of the word "disjointment" was jarring. I can find little on-line to the support its use. "Disjointedness" or even the apparently archaic "disjoint" are far more common. 

I have not seen the show, but the idea that it would ape BSG and the Expanse makes sense given that is how science-fiction looks onscreen looks these days. Even Enterprise gave this a shot with it's mostly gray and overly mechanical backgrounds and settings. Cameras in constant motion and keeping the viewer off balance are commonplace in modern storytelling, especially if one is shooting for a more action-oriented effect. 

That Discovery would consciously try to go backwards and make itself look like a product of the 90's is unlikely. Trek, especially Trek of the Berman era, has been routinely criticized for its static, locked-down, unimaginative look and pacing. Fans may feel comfortable in its environs, but to more general audiences, the look is repetitive and boring. 

Kristen Bell in connection with the film Fanboys was asked which franchise she would prefer appearing in, Star Trek or Star Wars. While she allowed that she had affection for Trek, she said, "My body just wants to do Star Wars."

Discovery seems to be attempting to give Kristen and those who feel similarly an action-based version of the franchise they like but can't quite love. 

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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

That Discovery would consciously try to go backwards and make itself look like a product of the 90's is unlikely.

The same goes for aping the look and feel of TOS in the 60s but there are ways to use old tools and techniques (ie the fundamentals) and apply them to make something new without throwing away the rulebook.   ENTERPRISE with it's dull greys and confining submarine-like environs actually feels like something from the pre-TOS PIke era.  You at least have an idea there's a progression of form and function in the ship environments and controls.   It DISCO had been set in the post-TNG era then I wouldn't have a problem with them going wild with the visuals and the presentation.   It's not impossible to be progressive in your writing/presentation and to be what's essentially gap-filling glue for the STAR TREK franchise but it requires a lot of forethought and care.

   

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Brian Hague
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Posted: 09 November 2018 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Again, a major obstacle in the series' production and airing is the creators' insistence that it be set in this awkward period in Star Trek's history, and in the "Prime" timeline. 

All of this could have been avoided had they gone with the Kelvin universe or set the series after the TNG era. All of the new technology and visuals would make sense. Michael Burnham could be the adopted daughter of any prominent, politically dicey Vulcan. The tenuous connection to Spock wouldn't exist, but instead another sibling, with far more story potential, could have been introduced. We already know Burnham plays no part at all in Spock's future. She isn't there for his death, isn't mentioned in "Babel," plays no part in "Star Trek V," isn't present when he is brought back, and isn't referenced when he becomes the Romulan ambassador who destroyed Romulus. 

There is no point at all in attempting to shoehorn her into his story, and the connection makes her an unnecessary adjunct to his career rather than the star of her own.

It's just a bad idea from the get-go. I see that CBS (weird for a long-time Star Trek fan such as myself not to associate the property with NBC) is hyping a major role for Spock in Season Two. That's fine, whatever; but I'd actually be intrigued if her other brother showed up to wreak havoc on Discovery. Sybok and Michael Burnham together! If we talk to the rights holders, maybe we can work in Scrappy-Doo and Cousin Oliver as well...


Edited by Brian Hague on 09 November 2018 at 9:43pm
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 10 November 2018 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I really enjoyed "Calypso", the new short Trek.  Anybody else watch it yet?
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 10 November 2018 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Yes both Short Treks were decent...the lastest one, Calypso was especially good and might as well be called... Star Trek: Black Mirror.  By Michael Chabon. :)
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 10 November 2018 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Now that you mention it, it did have a bit of a Black Mirror feel to it.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 13 December 2018 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply


Is Burnham wearing what I think she's wearing?
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 13 December 2018 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Sure looks like it... I wonder Is a Red Angel anything like a Dark Phoenix?

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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 03 January 2019 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

OK, I've heard the horror stories but have
yet to watch or get STD. Dvd's are $30 for
the first season. Is it worth it?
Seriously, if you liked it and didn't
have the streaming service, would you
spend $30 to put this in your Star Trek
Library?
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 03 January 2019 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

OK, I've heard the horror stories but have
yet to watch or get STD. Dvd's are $30 for
the first season. Is it worth it?
Seriously, if you liked it and didn't
have the streaming service, would you
spend $30 to put this in your Star Trek
Library?
++++++++++++++++


If the guys who produce BEST OF THE WORST (which focuses on reviewing terrible movies) don't even want to review it anymore, well...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d4iCa6h29c
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 03 January 2019 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Stephen, you can check with your local library to see if they have the series and then review it to see if it's for you, all without that $30 investment. It's an open and legal means around the CBS paywall.

See, walls don't stop anything. 

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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 03 January 2019 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

It's a fun show. Ignore the youtube mouth breathers. Compared to the war crimes of the modern film series, it's good stuff.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 04 January 2019 at 3:31am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Re: "It's a fun show. Ignore the youtube mouth breathers. Compared to the war crimes of the modern film series, it's good stuff."

LOL. One of the war crimes being that we even have to talk about a "Kelvin Timeline."

Re: "DVDs are $30 for the first season. Is it worth it?" Here is my two part probably crappy answer to your very good question: 

1)  Go with the library plan as suggested... or... when Season 2 starts, why not spend $10-ish and stream Season 1 and the Short Treks and then watch the first four episodes as they roll out (or at least starting when you are done with Season 1)? If you like it, re-up another month. If you still want to see what happens next, take one more, and that should do it, cancel. There's $30 spent and you get Season 1 and 2. Why do it this way? If you buy Season 1 and really like it, won't you just want to stream Season 2? Then you will be out $60. :)

2) As long as we are being honest about the, er, "modern film series," let me confess: after watching ST in reruns since I was about 2 years old and then seeing every subsequent series first-run, I gave up during Enterprise. Just couldn't take the paint-by-numbers anymore.  Felt cheated by the last couple of "Prime Timeline" movies... and as far as the afore-mentioned "war crimes," a little like Galactus after devouring Popup. Also, way too darkI Where was the wonder and the optimism?

I tried watching some random TNG (loved that show!) episodes recently, and they just were near unwatchable in this day and age (curiously, unlike TOS). How can you watch Game of Thrones, nuBSG, The Expanse (and I will stop there but all of us could go on) and then possibly go back to some episode of TNG where there is a 20-minute A-story about Picard and a 20-minute B-story about god-knows-what intertwined by 20 minutes of commercials and filler... with all of the issues resolved in the last five minutes of the hour? Impossible.

But hell yeah, with STD, Star Trek was finally fun again, not predictable, and yes dark--but not in the same joyless rut of dark the movies found themselves in. There is a sense of wonder and optimism embedded in the crew.  When there isn't, there is a reason.  

Also, luckily, I am not triggered by seeing diversity on the screen, angry about gender bending, cranky stuff like that. Discovery even got me (ok, cranky me) to go back and watch a slew of episodes of Enterprise that I had missed! 
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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 04 January 2019 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I still love TNG reruns, but agree with everything else you say here!

Discovery has a ton of truly likable, interesting characters and actually managed to surprise me a few times. (Not too strangely, this is exactly why I enjoyed The Last Jedi.)
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 05 January 2019 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

It looks like they are bringing in another character from TOS to this to try and appeal to the fans, and from the adverts seems he will be a fairly major character in the show this season. I have to admit it's working on me, I want to at least see the introduction of the character, while worried too much more of Mudd could ruin things like too much Dr. Smith in Lost In Space.

I haven't really liked the Short Treks so much; a bit too cutesy? I'll sign on for a few episodes when it starts up in a couple weeks, wonder if I'll stay?
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Joie Simmons
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Posted: 07 January 2019 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I was thinking about this the other day and trying to remember my
Star Trek history. It looks like the first season takes place in 2255 or
so? (I hate that they put actual dates to the series) and around
2257, according to the non-canon sources, The USS Farragut with a
young Lt James T Kirk was destroyed. I bet the story group they
have assembled are working hard on figuring out the best way to
work that into season 3.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 12 January 2019 at 2:06am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

 Steven Churay wrote:
Seriously, if you liked it and didn't 
have the streaming service, would you 
spend $30 to put this in your Star Trek 
Library?

First off, $30 for any single season is crazy money.  I wouldn't pay that for BREAKING BAD, BILLIONS, GAME OF THRONES or JUSTIFIED just to name a few of my absolute favorites.  I paid that money for series on DVD in the early 2000's before the advent of streaming.  So, no, not worth it for any series.  

But is it worth it to own sometime?  Sure.  At the right price.  $30 ain't it.  DISCOVERY ain't perfect, but it's a fun ride. Should 15 one-hour episodes come down to $15?  Scoop it up.  
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 16 January 2019 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Whew I finally took a look at those YouTube DISCO conspiracy theory and “this is not a rant” videos served up above.  

Good Lord, don’t people realize that shooting and lighting and writing and editing and directing and casting and storytelling have evolved since Enterprise aired?  Of course DISCO looks different and has a different “tone.”  I am trying to imagine a YouTube rant of some Knots Landing fan breaking down why diehard Knots Landing fans “aren’t connecting” with a 2019 version (don’t worry there isn’t one) because it is not shot the same way as Knots Landing was, and Dallas before that.

Anyway, on another topic: all four of the shorts turned out to be cool, and yup, if it helps, think of them as two full episodes. If you put two twenty minute Short Treks in a blender and imagine commercial breaks, you get the same ~40 minutes of story content as a standard A story (Need to trade for dilithium but these aliens aren’t being helpful)/B story (Worf is embarrassed by his large pimple) episode of TNG. :)


Edited by Victor Perez on 16 January 2019 at 8:41pm
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 16 January 2019 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Yeah, I know nobody likes the word 'hater' around these parts, and it is over and misused, but there has to be a term to describe what Midnight's Edge is to Star Trek and Nerdrotic is to Doctor Who.

I mean, not liking JJ Trek or Disco is totally understandable.  Not liking the new female Doctor is likewise totally understandable.

Posting an hour and a half rant about those shows every other day, even when new material isn't being released is not understandable.  Like seriously, how much of your life are you going to devote to shitting on something you hate?  Wouldn't it be better to just move on and devote that time to enjoying something you love?
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