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Steve De Young
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Posted: 14 August 2018 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

There's a lot of outright misinformation and interpretation in that Midnight's Edge video, and assuming the truth of various rumors. What he says in that video about the Paramount/CBS rights situation, for example, simply isn't true.  I've been told about that situation by an actual licensor throughout that period, who I believe over some guy who made a video. Here's why I don't buy the 'eradicating the 'Prime' timeline bit'.

JJ Abrams, in 2009, when he took over the property, attempted that full court press.  He wanted an end to all merchandising of any kind of any Star Trek but his.  He wanted to present a completely united front.  And he got turned down flat, which is part of what caused him to withdraw from taking an active role with the property.  CBS was making way, way too much money on merchandising the other series', and weren't going to give it up.  Nothing much has changed since then.  There's a reason McFarlane toys cancelled the Disco phaser for lack of interest, but is making (Shatner) Kirk and Picard action figures with the license.  It sells better.

Don't get me wrong.  CBS has no quasi-ethical dedication to longtime Star Trek fans or whatever.  They, like all corporations, are in business to make money and maximize profit.  So why not have your cake and eat it too?  Sell TOS stuff and Disco stuff.  Make 8 different Spock action figures for fans of all ages.  Have one line of stuff for long time fans, and another for the ones into the new stuff.  Do Disco and a Picard series for two different audiences.  Limiting their own options makes no sense.  DC has been doing this for years, too, selling all kinds of merch with old Garcia-Lopez art on it for longtime fans, right alongside the hot new garbage.
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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 14 August 2018 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Have any scripts even been written yet? Outlines?
I can't muster enough outrage to ponder the continuity shattering implications based off of an announcement.
Once they're in production and anything of consequence gets leaked (assuming leaks to be accurate), *then* I'll develop the requisite agita.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 14 August 2018 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

No scripts have been written.  Apparently a Star Trek novelist with a good reputation pitched the idea.  It’s that idea that Patrick Stewart signed on for.  She’s listed as an ep on the series.
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 15 August 2018 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

News sites are reporting that Ethan Peck has been cast as Spock on DISCOVERY.

Haven't seen much of his work but a glance at the IMDB shows that his most prominent role to date has been playing the grandson of Greogry Peck.  :-)

In an age where many film actors are jumping at the chance for a regular paying gig on TV that only increases their exposure it's a puzzler why Quinto isn't taking this role. 
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Ted Downum
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Posted: 15 August 2018 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Rob: "Haven't seen much of his work but a glance at the IMDB shows that his most prominent role to date has been playing the grandson of Gregory Peck.  :-)"

*****

It occurs to me that Gregory Peck would have made a superb Vulcan!

As for Ethan Peck, I have no idea. I'd have been happy to see Quinto back in the role, but I wonder if somebody decided that he was now "too old" for a chronologically younger Spock...though that supposes Creative Team Disco thinks about that kind of stuff, which I strongly suspect they do not. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UiWWQ22EnZ8
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

“‘...and I guess you haven’t seen the show, or the whole series.’
Why would you guess that?”

...because I honestly couldn’t remember whether you were: 1) one of the happy few posting here who had seen and enjoyed Discovery, or 2) one of the many more posting here who—while very well read and respectful of others and Trek in general—either hadn’t seen any Discovery or hadn’t seen any beyond episode 2 were just grumpy about something... somehow they just knew it wasn’t for them... or they were just sick of sjws ....or “sick of people on both sides” ....or just sick of the culture wars ...or just sick of people just “not telling great stories” ...so I just played the odds. Look, it wasn’t perfect, but my friends and family were entertained. We are different people but what we have in common is we all saw the whole season and if an any given point an individual was not enthusiastic about a given episode, we were carried along in part by the rest and in part by a pretty basic desire to find out what happens next.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 23 August 2018 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Apologies if I guessed wrong, by the way.
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Bill Mimbu
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Posted: 09 September 2018 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

With Leslie Moonves resigning today from CBS, I wonder how soon will that impact the current Trek projects..
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Oliver Denker
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Posted: 10 September 2018 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Leslie Moonves second in command takes over...so we'll have to see.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 10 September 2018 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I've always heard that Moonves was not a big fan of Trek, and that's why the Trek pickings have been so meager on the TV side for so long.  So I can't see how this would be a negative turn for the franchise.
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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 01 October 2018 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Okay, my wife and I finally started watching this past weekend.  I haven't read all of the thread in order to avoid spoilers, I think I stopped around page 10 or so.  She doesn't have much of a Star Trek history.  She is a civilian who knows many of the principle characters from TOS and TNG. I consider myself a lifelong fan.  I started with TOS in syndication as a child and immediately took to TNG as I was about 14 when it hit the air. I do remember not liking the first episode particularly when it first hit the air and going on a dial-up BBS to vent about it.  But in retrospect, I'm glad I stuck with it.

So we binge watched to the end of the first half of the season. We were definitely taken with it.  We like the characters.  There were some great surprises.  I had an audible gasp, and my wife pointed out that it was the first time she ever heard such a sound while I have been watching something. 

I decided to just go with some of the things.  I had to immediately just let go of the difference in technologies between Discovery and TOS. I don't need an explanation, I don't need to make one up for my own satisfaction. The spore technology is a bit far fetched, but so be it. Its a MacGuffin. I'm there for the stories. 

Loved Rainn Wilson as early Harry Mudd.  Since the Discovery has a different level of classification than the rest of what we know as the Federation, I feel they can run into things we know while exploring other areas as well.  

I do like the ongoing story arc. But that tends to be my preference over individual episodes for quite some time.  I'm definitely in to finish the season.  I can speculate at some things and look forward to seeing where it goes.

Oh, my wife loves the series even more than I do as she got mad when I said we had to get to the kid's football game yesterday.
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 02 October 2018 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

So we binge watched to the end of the first half of the season. We were definitely taken with it.  We like the characters.  There were some great surprises. 

The non-TREK fans I've talked to who have watched the show echo much of the same comments -- they generally like it.   On it's own merits it's a decent, slick-looking show but it's a poor example of STAR TREK (IMO).   If it didn't have a franchise name attached to it I'd probably be a devoted viewer.

I decided to just go with some of the things.  I had to immediately just let go of the difference in technologies between Discovery and TOS. I don't need an explanation, I don't need to make one up for my own satisfaction. The spore technology is a bit far fetched, but so be it. Its a MacGuffin. I'm there for the stories. 

I hear you, but as a viewer and STAR TREK fan you shouldn't have to turn off your brain to make a square peg fit in a round hole.   It's possible to make a show that's both good television *and* good STAR TREK.  We've seen it done before (TOS, TNG, and DS9 in particular), it's doable now.  It just needs someone willing to put in the effort and care.   

How about a parallel example from another franchise?

STARGATE: UNIVERSE ticked most of the same boxes that DISCOVERY does.

*Looked slick and was more effects heavy than it's predecessors

*The characters fought with each other and were generally unlikeable people in ways that previous STARGATE characters did not and were not, sometimes to the detriment of the show because it alienated fans

*The show dispensed with most of the continuity and lore of previous STARGATE and seemed to be doing something completely different.   Not a sin in and of itself but you have to ease your old viewers into it.   Going cold turkey into a brash, loud not-your-daddy's-STARGATE was a little too much.

STARGATE UNIVERSE had a pretty miserable first season ratings-wise and petered out in it's second.   There are a number of reasons for this but chief among them was that it wasn't really STARGATE.   It didn't look, feel, sound, or smell like it.   They basically dispensed with their tried-and-true demographics in favour of a younger audience that (like unicorns) may not have been actually there in the first place.   Modern comics have the same problem too.   The solution though isn't picking one audience (old fans versus possible new fans) but writing the show smartly to satisfy both.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 03 October 2018 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I've said before in this thread, but by the end of season one, I had come to the conclusion that if the art direction and set design of the show had been closer to 'The Cage', I would have really liked the show.  So I take it as a positive sign that in season 2 with things like uniforms and Klingons, they seem to be looking to make a transition to bring things closer to TOS.
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

All of this scrambling to reassure people that "Yes, this really is TOS.  Believe us.  Please, please watch" is pretty funny when you consider how off-model that first season will always look and feel, no matter how close to TOS they make everything that comes later and swear like George Lucas that it was the way they planned it all along.***

I mean, a lot of series have rough first seasons where they don't find their footing and the show has the wrong feel or the wrong direction.  TNG, B5, X-Files, Seinfeld, etc. all suffered from that but there are understandable reasons for it and when viewed in the context of the entire series they don't seem so bad or out of place.  It's part of the process of refinement that made these shows so great.

Then you have DISCOVERY's creative team that willingly, deliberately and knowingly shit all over the look, feel, and soul of what came before it and offered no regrets or apology.   ENTERPRISE tanked for a very good reason and it seems that no lessons were learned in the intervening decade and a half.  Even when they started to turn ENT around to align with previous STAR TREK the damage was already done. 

There's a huge irony here in that the early seasons of ENTERPRISE attempted to dissociate the show from the STAR TREK name because they felt the franchise connection was imposing and alienating to non-fans.   They wanted 'regular' people to take the show seriously on it's own merits (yes, even though underneath it's skirt it was still recognizably STAR TREK).   DISCOVERY on the other hand keeps trying too hard convince us that it's 'real' STAR TREK and doesn't let an opportunity to play up that name association go to waste.

*** I also think it's LOLfunny that their sad attempt to make this show more in line with TOS involves putting people in the wrong uniforms for the period.   It shows you just how much they really care, it really does.   It makes me appreaciate The Chief slaving over getting the subtle uniform differences between the TOS seasons right in ST:NV even more.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 10:31pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Randomly came across Short Treks as I was channel surfing tonight. Have now set up a series record on my DVR.
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 04 October 2018 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

From CBS’s point of view, Discovery is a hit and served its purpose. It also has a fan base that is looking forward to the next season. So if there is any “reassuring” and “please please watich”-ing going on, it’s probably coming from folks associated with the show who want to be liked by everyone including any vocal holdouts. 

Who are the holdouts?  Some unknown number of Trek fans who have been either been: a) offended by apparent departures in look, feel and soul, or b) put off by casting choices and story points that would be mocked on 4Chan or a Trump rally.  Or both.

Some of these holdouts argue their case with passion, some with logic and some with love and some with all of the above. Others sound more like angry Brett Kavanaugh yelling and screaming and crying about how they are impartial, how they love Star Trek, how the creators of Discovery have conspired to hide what they are really doing and have betrayed the fans. 

Like it was for Brett K, regardless of the truthfulness of the underlying accusations, the tone of the attack is disqualifying. What would Roddenberry do? Hell, what would Kirk and Spock and Picard and Ricker and Data do? They wouldn’t say the Discovery team “shat” on their legacy, they wouldn’t dispatage attempts to create something new and different, and they certainly wouldn’t begrudge efforts to include more diversity in the cast and characters and plots.

For sure not all of the creative choices of the Discovery team have been easy on the eyes. I can also totally understand why people are upset about the apparent break with the past. It sounds ridiculous to hear myself say this, but after Hickman blew up the 616 (and every) Marvel universe, I was surprised to find that I had (and still have) a hard time caring about current Marvel books and characters. I guess this is because these characters (again, this sounds ridiculous) literally aren’t the same heroes I grew up with (even though somhow I had believed for 40 years that Tony Stark was the same Tony Stark! See definition of a quantum of solace...Hickman killed mine!).

I am not mad, because it was a GREAT run, but I am a little sad. I’d hate to go through the same thing with Star Trek.  So if Discovery *is* actually a reboot or new timeline, all of the the fudging around that topic Is appreciated. If the new old phasers didn’t bust that bubble for me, some self-indulgent design choice for the TOS uniforms we are going to see won’t bust it either.


Edited by Victor Perez on 04 October 2018 at 11:33pm
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 05 October 2018 at 6:31am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

I’d hate to go through the same thing with Star Trek.  So if Discovery *is* actually a reboot or new timeline, all of the the fudging around that topic Is appreciated.

Remind me to reassure you it's only just rain when your back is turned...
:-)

It is somewhat offensive to me they continually insist on mining this particular era of the show when they seem very bent on making it into something that doesn't fit with everything else around it.   It's the lack of respect for the source material that worries me.   Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for the show to stick slavishly to the design and budget limitiations that made the two STAR TREK pilots look the way they did but DISCOVERY isn't even trying to find that happy medium between what modern TV viewers expect and what STAR TREK looked like in the 1960's.   ENTERPRISE had the same dilemma, it needed to look like a modern show but still evoke that STAR TREK feel -- they wanted to show cool ships and tech but they forgot they were depicting an earlier pre-Federation period.   It's akin to staging a recreation of a Napoleanic era battle and throwing in machine guns and flying drones instead of muskets and cannon and defending the decision by saying "Well that other stuff is boring, no one wants to see that.  We can't just sell this to Napolean fans, we have to court new audiences".   It's only then you realize the period they are depicting is just window dressing for the stuff they really wanted to do. 

I think a better age to have explored (if you were at all interested in spackling the perceived holes in the TREK timeline) was the 60-odd years of the post-ST6 pre-TNG period.   The ships and tech are advanced enough that they will look great on TV and if the designers were savvy they could evoke the cues of the two surrounding periods and keep fans of both eras happy.   The turtleneck-and-jacket uniform design is a classic and you could play around with it a bit seeing as they eventually dropped the turtleneck... perhaps for practical reasons.   

I would have an easier time swallowing the lost spore drive technology as happening in that era as well, showing why the advanced warp drive used in the TNG era was the best compromise between a tech that could win wars in a matter of minutes/hours but was risky to use, environmentally damaging and required either volunteers or slaves to operate versus slow incremental upgrades to the tried and true warp drive.   Our modern dilemma of reliance/addiction to the fossil fuels that got our civilization to where it is versus the fact that we have to eventually give them up for the sake of our species survival is a good framework for much of the same things our descendants hundreds of years in the future will be likely be facing.   Of course any new tech has it's drawbacks, like the toxic materials needed for manufacturing electric cars and you are just trading one horror for another, all the while pretending the new option is squeaky clean.  Building off the late movie era advancements in cloaking technology as a direction for where things were going and revelations shown in TNG that advanced warp drive ultimately had unintended environmental effects would have been a good start too.   Not to mention the Federation were covertly experimenting with advanced cloaking tech ("The Pegasus") and who knows what else.   That's great story fodder right there.

Getting the tech right is only half the battle.   The politics of that era are complex given the uneasy tentative peace treaty with the Klingons and it wouldn't have taken much to destabilize things back to posturing or war (like they were currently trying to depict on DISCO).   Here's where the divisions between the Klingon houses would have been so much better utilized -- the clashes between the more progressive followers of Gorkon's legacy and the conservative warmonger types is a better fitting analogue for modern politics.   You could even have your new redesigned Klingons in there as eptiomized by the now-martyred (and incidentally hairless) Chang.  Give it a couple of decades and the 'followers of Chang' probably have drifted in their ideals to the point where they idolize his bald appearance as being more true to the principles of Kahless with the irony that they have no idea who Chang was or what he was even about (but hey, he fought the horrible p'tak Kirk and died honorably in battle... and that's all that matters, right?).   There's your GoT intrigue there, if you wanted it.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 07 October 2018 at 9:07am
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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 05 October 2018 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

We finished the first season and loved it. Definitely an exciting and interesting addition to the Star Trek franchise.  We found the crew to be very engaging. The stories were noise inducing.  I don't think there was an episode we found disappointing out of the bunch. 

I don't like using the term "dated".  But I do appreciate that things are a product of their time. Certainly TOS was a product of the 60s, and that is something I do appreciate in terms of style and content.  The same could be said about TNG, DS9, and VOY as a product of the 90s. DIS carries that same relevancy to today as the shows that came before it. We are definitely going to be on board for the next season.

Though, I admit that we went through the series on All Access with our free week and discontinued once we are done, so we aren't getting the shorts for now.  We will likely re-up once season 2 is complete and binge over a month.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 06 October 2018 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

New trailer for season 2 with glimpses of Number One and Spock.

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Richard Stevens
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Posted: 07 October 2018 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Pretty jazzed for Number One. Pike has such a refreshing attitude after last year's captain.
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 09 October 2018 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Well I have to say that the season 2 trailers look more interesting than the season 1 trailers did. I guess when I finally have to subscribe to the CBS service to watch the Picard series, I'll go ahead and try to binge-watch Discovery too. 
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 09 October 2018 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Re: “It is somewhat offensive to me they continually insist on mining this particular era of the show when they seem very bent on making it into something that doesn't fit with everything else around it.” I guess that could make the new Picard show interesting, because other than a few data points here and there, it might be set in a largely unexplored future. 
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 11 October 2018 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply


Pretty jazzed for Number One. Pike has such a refreshing attitude after last year's captain.

I wonder if they will use DISCOVERY to flesh out Pike's story, possibly including the circumstances how he gave up command of the Enterprise?

I just hope they don't decide to rewrite canon and have him exposed to delta radiation from something other than saving cadets on a training exercise.   The official line is he was a highly decorated captain and subsequently promoted to Fleet Commander.  He then had to relinquish his field command in much the same way Kirk had to when he was granted an Admirality.


Edited by Rob Ocelot on 11 October 2018 at 8:23pm
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Victor Perez
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Posted: 11 October 2018 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

...and have him exposed to delta radiation

Argh, don't give them any ideas!!!!
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