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Topic: Sunday, Bloody Sunday - 11.15.2015 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 15 November 2015 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Brutal!! -- And very COOL!!
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 6:39am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

JB, did the comics code even bat an eye at some of Wolverine's "antics" during your run?

In my day the Code seemed more concerned with bums than blood.

They kept a close eye on how high I cut the hips on Storm's costume. Hebbin forbid I might get a little "French"! There was one panel in particular where the line was lowered with what appeared to be (to borrow from Mort Walker) a warm Hershey bar.

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Peter Martin
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Nasty! Wolverine's grin alongside the butchery is scary.
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Derek Rogers
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Amazing JB! I miss the hair trigger Wolverine.

Question for all: IIRC didn't that guy really get better in the comics?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

IIRC didn't that guy really get better in the comics?

Yes. Shooter stuck his big thumb into that story several times, first by saying Wolverine could only be "grazed" by the machine gun fire (despite visual evidence to the contrary), then by insisting that everyone Wolverine had ever attack had survived.

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

TANGENT (or drift, I guess...) I kinda miss the days when Wolverine had a healing factor, which meant that he healed faster than humans... and not an "instant heal" factor that lets him survive immolation, drowning, a punch from the Hulk, further damage ad absurdum.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Some may recall that in my first issue Logan was literally punched into orbit -- Shooter had no say on that -- but it took him a while to recover. Unfortunately, his healing factor became infinite and instantaneous, ending with Lean Grey disintegrating him in one of the stupidest scenes in a stupid movie.
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Gundars Berzins
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Wow, Wolverine not pulling any punch here. Another stunning commission.
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Josh Goldberg
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"Shooter stuck his big thumb into that story several times, first by saying Wolverine could only be "grazed" by the machine gun fire (despite visual evidence to the contrary)..."
****

That whole sequence is a particularly blatant example of the words not matching the pictures.  Immediately before he's shot (straight on, in his gut), Wolverine's costume is undamaged.  Immediately after he's shot, the midsection of his costume is torn to shreds (front and back).  And Wolverine thinks to himself "That was close -- almost too close.  If I hadn't spun away when this guy fired, his burst would'a cut me in two 'stead o' simply creasin' my side!"

What now?!
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Mark McKay
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The picture of the next moment, where the hand comes back out, would be a truly gruesome picture.
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stephane LIENAFA LIENAFA
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Wow ! I think it's the best Wolverine you Drew since many years ! Good job, mister Byrne.
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Casey Sager
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Posted: 16 November 2015 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Absolutely breathtaking! Congrats all around on this one.
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Michael Arndt
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Posted: 17 November 2015 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Wow.

Congrats to the commissioner.
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 17 November 2015 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Outstanding !
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 18 November 2015 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Brilliant. Very intense!
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 19 November 2015 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I love Wolverine's grin and hate that "everybody survived" nonsense. C'mon. Wolverine was a casual killer. Professor X brought him into the team to keep an eye on him, the unspoken "or else" being that his murderous ways might bring down trouble on mutants.

Why this has to be softened to some PG "oh, he really wasn't KILLING those guys" is beyond me. Was it going to wreck a toy deal or something?
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Jason Larouse
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Posted: 19 November 2015 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Didn't the guys who survived become the Reavers lead by Donald Pierce? 

Amazing how many spin off storylines Marvel has gotten out of Dark Phoenix Saga.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 19 November 2015 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Why this has to be softened to some PG "oh, he really wasn't KILLING those guys" is beyond me. 
---------------------------------------------
I can see where you're coming from and, as a kid, I loved the bits where I could show people 'Look, comics aren't just for kids!" and disliked the comics code, but somewhat paradoxically my views have inverted, and I now think the comics code had a very positive effect on comics. As ridiculous as the sequence as described by Josh above was, I look back with fondness on those sort of things. 


Edited by Peter Martin on 19 November 2015 at 5:26pm
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Trevor Smith
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Posted: 19 November 2015 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

"...as a kid, I loved the bits where I could show people
'Look, comics aren't just for kids!" and disliked the
comics code, but somewhat paradoxically my views have
inverted, and I now think the comics code had a very
positive effect on comics."

**

Plucked the words straight out of my head.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 November 2015 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

The Comics Code DID have a positive effect. It forced us to be smart, instead of obvious. Creative, instead of self-indulgent. The inspiration for this commission is a perfect example. Go look at the original scene. Action! Excitement! And... no blood. No gore. You have to provide that with your own imaginations -- which is a thousand times more effective than literal splatter.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 19 November 2015 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

It helps that each of the panels where a goon gets cut down is colored
a striking red. The coloring gives the impression of blood and gore
without any actually being depicted on-panel.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 November 2015 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Happy to take credit for the solid red motif. I suggested it to Glynis, and she pulled it off perfectly!
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Blair Herd
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Posted: 20 November 2015 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

The Comics Code DID have a positive effect. It forced us to be smart, instead of obvious. Creative, instead of self-indulgent. The inspiration for this commission is a perfect example. Go look at the original scene. Action! Excitement! And... no blood. No gore. You have to provide that with your own imaginations -- which is a thousand times more effective than literal splatter.

************************************************************ *****************
Perfectly stated.  I think this is what is lost now in comics as well as movies, essentially most visual media.  There is a lack of creativity or the ability to paint a picture.  Everything is gratuitous in nature, taking place on camera instead of being implied.  The audience, I suppose has been desensitized and needs more to get that visceral response.  Something I have always admired about you JB is your ability to tell a story in just one panel or with a few expressions.  No words are needed.  That is a sign of true artistry.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 November 2015 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

There's something I call "the Madonna Effect." Probably I should update it to "the Miley Cyrus Effect." In any case, the point is that once one sets out to be "shocking," one has to be more and MORE shocking in order to maintain the effect.

Comics fell into this trap quite a long time ago, in large part by continuing to play to what was essentially the same aging audience.

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 20 November 2015 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I agree about the Code. My beef was more with the Shooterism that "none of the guys Wolverine attacked died." A bunch of them did become Reavers, it's true. And JB is right that the Code drove creators to be creative in depicting some things--such as a guy driving his claws through another guy's abdomen. No blood, no gore but we knew what was going on.
Also, like the "Miley Cyrus Effect." Like most stimulants, users need to take more and more to have the same effect.
Maybe the next generation of creators will shock and awe readers by going ever smaller... "This month, the town of Hamilton Bay teeters on the edge of near-destruction at the hands of Apocalypticus!"

Edited by Andrew Bitner on 20 November 2015 at 8:57am
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