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Brian Philbin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 5
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| Posted: 10 June 2015 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 1
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So - I haven't been exactly keeping up with Convergence and the whole event, but have been extremely encouraged to see the Marvel Family in their own world (as JLB had suggested to begin with and others attempted as a bit of a shoehorn afterward) and style. The range of styles and approaches in these comics has also been encouraging (although, some of it is purely nostalgic, there's plenty to enjoy for varied reasons).
I have questions and I expect this to be probably the most reasonable place to ask them.
Does Generations now exist as a new sandbox for others to play in?
(I'm torn on a "yes" response, as I'd prefer for JLB to be the only one to perform further story lines - but I would like to see more Generations)
Is it possible or likely we're going to see more whimsical stuff played with in the DCU?
I'd surely love to see DC stop being so grim & serious all the time. The dreariness of their movies makes me ill and I long for the days of the animated Justice League and the like (still my favorite line of toys, ever).
Anyone have answers? Thoughts, even?
Pax, harmonia,
Brian G. Philbin (Long Time Reader, infrequent poster, but I've been following JLB's online comments in each iteration since the early AOL Board days)
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 10 June 2015 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 2
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First, welcome to the forum.
As I understand it, the new DC event wipes out CRISIS ON
INFINITE EARTHS. The Multiverse no longer has 52 Earths,
but an infinite number of them.
With that, EVERY story now can be in the sandbox except
Crisis. Since JB doesn't own the characters, I'm sure if a
writer had something to say within Generations continuity,
they could.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 10 June 2015 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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I liked the concept of Convergence. The end result essentially turned out to be what I have been saying for years. In response to continuity in comics. Just tell the stories you want to tell. If you like something that has been done before and want to reference it go ahead. But if you don't ignore it all together.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133130
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| Posted: 10 June 2015 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 4
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I liked the concept of Convergence. The end result essentially turned out to be what I have been saying for years. In response to continuity in comics. Just tell the stories you want to tell. If you like something that has been done before and want to reference it go ahead. But if you don't ignore it all together.•• You realize that kind of thinking is exactly what created the "need" for CRISIS?
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Marc Cheek
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1785
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| Posted: 10 June 2015 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 5
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Any bets on how long before DC decides to shrink the multiverse
again.... It seems like it's continual reboots every couple of years.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 10 June 2015 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | 6
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DC's stated intent for its new "post-Convergence" universe is that it will include a great many different moods, tones, and approaches, even ones that the guys in charge don't particularly like very much. The original "Nu52" concept fit everything into one, supposedly-seamless continuum, which had a flattening effect upon the creativity and imagination one could bring to the proceedings. Anything a new creator did still had to look and feel as if Jim Lee and his staff came up with it.
DC says they want a line that courts readers from many demographic groups, so they're doing humor titles (Bat-Mite, Bizarro), girl's books, ultra-ultra-violence and lots of different stuff. Nothing has to feel like it must tie in with everything else anymore, supposedly. They say they're lightening up on the continuity angle. We will see...
Myself, I think this is the only valid approach the company can take at this point. Time and time again, reboot after reboot, DC has demonstrated that one, single seamless continuity does not work. They can't maintain it. No one wants to write it. Radical shifts in character histories and backgrounds still take place, only in continuity-heavy times, they have to be explained and over-explained to the point of dreariness.
Going back to what created the "need" for Crisis and then NOT doing one would be a better tack for them to take at this point.
I looked at the new Bat-Mite book. By page two, there were castration jokes, so it didn't really appeal to me, but hey, whatever. I wish them luck. It's not as if I can afford modern comics anyway, so I wouldn't be buying them on a monthly basis even if they somehow, miraculously came up with something I did enjoy. At this point, "Batman '66" is as close as anything I've seen, and that's only because it showcases a non-insane, non-ultra-ultra-violent Batman in shorter stories that don't encourage me to hate my fellow man and wake up to what a fetid cesspool we're all living in...
Edited by Brian Hague on 10 June 2015 at 10:03pm
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 11 June 2015 at 2:46am | IP Logged | 7
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I liked the concept of Convergence. The end result essentially turned out to be what I have been saying for years. In response to continuity in comics. Just tell the stories you want to tell. If you like something that has been done before and want to reference it go ahead. But if you don't ignore it all together.•• You realize that kind of thinking is exactly what created the "need" for CRISIS? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From the moment I first discovered Crisis I didn't think it was really needed. I think it was all just a matter of many people being overly obsessed with continuity. They needed to have every little thing fit together in a nice little box and wrapped up with a bow. I look at it like this, as long as you stay true to the core of who the character is and don't mess with that. Everything else should be about telling the story. If the writer after you likes something you did they could include that. If they aren't interested they need not mention it at all. If comic book characters need to exist in a vacuum and remain essentially unchanged. So that the next generation of fans get to discover them. Is it really a problem telling these loosely connected stories ? When I was a kid I was really into Sherlock Holmes. I enjoyed the stories thru various mediums. Film, book and old radio shows. All the times I heard them I never gave any thought of how they were connected. Certain things remained constant. Where they lived their personalities. Moriarty being Holme's arch enemy. That was all the continuity that was needed. I didn't wonder when did the Hound of the Baskerville's take place in relation to the Secret Weapon. Should comic books be the same? What's the difference between Sherlock Holmes and Clark Kent ? But aren't they all literary creations.
Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 11 June 2015 at 8:56am
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 11 June 2015 at 2:49am | IP Logged | 8
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I hate what DC had done to their characters. I had no interest in the 52. So there was nothing there for me to follow. But now because of Convergence. I could potentially see something new with the version of the characters I like.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 11 June 2015 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 9
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To my mind, Convergence (or the newest Secret Wars, if you like) is one of two gimmicks that seem the easiest that the Big Two (tm) use to try to kick up sales. These are either A) The Company Wide Crossover ("forcing" readers to buy every annual and/or all related books) or B) The Reboot (Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Flashpoint/Nu52, and now Convergence), restarting everything anew for all those eager readers who want a Jumping On Point - no such project having EVER been done right.
These are done because sales need a boost (sales ALWAYS need a boost, of course) and this is the easiest way to get readers' attention. Since they happen with such regularity though, and the readers are the same ones from ten, fifteen, forty years ago, they may not get many new readers onboard; and they probably dissuade a lot of readers from continuing. I know I dropped all but three titles after Nu52; Batman Beyond Universe, Legion of Super-Heroes and World's Finest. And none of those interacted really interacted with the mainstream DCU.
The REAL way to boost sales would be to find the target audience and give them what they want (not necessarily what they ask for - Stan is STILL right.) This would involves the horrendous determination - ARE comic books still a viable medium? Of course, a comic book company has to assume so.
But finding out what the new audience wants is hard; copy and pasting the Marvel universes/DC multiverses all together is easy. Thus the state of the comics world today. And it seems that it cannot hold... at least to this old fogey.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133130
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| Posted: 11 June 2015 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 10
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Unfortunately, the Companies and many of the Retailers think only in terms of "boosted" sales, ie spikes generated by "events" and other such tomfoolery.The notion of building an audience, and thru it a long term flow of steady income, is utterly alien to the present structure of the industry. (There's that word again!)
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 11 June 2015 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 11
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I'm honestly surprised by the number of publishers and books being published these days. How are these guys making any profit with such high production costs and low sales?
I really thought print comics would be dead by now.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10935
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| Posted: 11 June 2015 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 12
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I did not grow up reading DC except for NEW TEEN TITANS, yet the three GENERATIONS series contain some of my favorite comic book stories. I'm not following this current reboot, but it sounds like "anything goes". I would hope they would reach out and ask JB to do a fourth GENERATIONS.
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Topic Closed)
