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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I appreciate the film being on a small scale as well. Especially since Spider-Man was the start of a new arc for the MCU. I look forward to seeing the build up. But I hope it isn't going to be anything on a cosmic scale like with the Avengers.
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David Miller
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The Tinkerer is an alien so we'll probably see that expanded in SPIDER-MAN: WINTER FORMAL.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I finally saw it. I liked it overall as I like most hero movies over all. A little slow at times but thats ok.

Seems like everything has been covered by all you folks who posted before me but I have a question.

In the scene, where Peter hears that Liz has a crush on Spider-Man - did Liz's friend say she would "Eff" Thor, and marry Captain America? Did I hear that correctly? "Eff" Thor?

I LOVED the scene when Peter lifted the tonnage of debris off his back, taken directly from that famous scene in Spider-Man #33. 

I laughed at May's reaction to discovering Pet'er was Spider-Man. I'm ok with Aunt May being younger. I never understood how the comic book May was Peter's aunt. I don't know much about her....was she a great aunt perhaps? 

I like Keaton as the "bird man"...;-)

The only thing I didn't like was the Iron Spider-Man suit.

My daughter saw the movie with me and the only thing she didn't like was that the Vulture was yet another tech-based villain. The villain she liked the best so far was Electro since his powers came from within. I had to agree that energy projecting heroes and villains are cool.

I sure hope Captain Marvel has her energy projection powers.




Edited by Robert Shepherd on 16 July 2017 at 7:20pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I appreciate the film being on a small scale as well. Especially since Spider-Man was the start of a new arc for the MCU. I look forward to seeing the build up. But I hope it isn't going to be anything on a cosmic scale like with the Avengers.
++++++++

While I'm all for Spider-Man existing in the same universe as the rest of the Marvel characters, I really don't like the idea of him becoming and Avenger, down the road. Spider-Man as a team player doesn't work for me at all.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The Tinkerer is an alien so we'll probably see that expanded in SPIDER-MAN: WINTER FORMAL.
+++++++++

Looking forward to SPIDER-MAN: SPRING BREAK, myself. Get James Franco (reprising his SPRING BREAKERS character) in there for a wink-wink cameo, and we're good.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

In the scene, where Peter hears that Liz has a crush on Spider-Man - did Liz's friend say she would "Eff" Thor, and marry Captain America? Did I hear that correctly? "Eff" Thor?
++++++++

Yep. And that friend is who wants to "Eff" Thor is "Betty Brant", the school newsgirl.



Edited by Greg Kirkman on 16 July 2017 at 7:26pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I laughed at May's reaction to discovering Pet'er was Spider-Man. I'm ok with Aunt May being younger. I never understood how the comic book May was Peter's aunt. I don't know much about her....was she a great aunt perhaps? 
+++++++++

Peter's parents were Richard and Mary Parker. Ben Parker was Richard's brother, and May Reilly was Ben's wife, and therefore Peter's aunt by marriage, and not a blood relative.

...although Lee and Ditko were perhaps thinking that she was a blood relative (the same blood type, at the very least) waaayyyy back in ASM # 10, when Peter gave her a blood transfusion. And, of course, her maiden name, "Reilly", indicates that she's Irish, not Italian, as Tomei's version is.



We probably shouldn't mention the TROUBLE mini-series from a few years back, which hinted that Peter is actually May's son, and the result of an unwanted pregnancy borne out of a fling with Richard. UGH.



Edited by Greg Kirkman on 16 July 2017 at 10:45pm
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply


While I'm all for Spider-Man existing in the same universe as the rest of the Marvel characters, I really don't like the idea of him becoming and Avenger, down the road. Spider-Man as a team player doesn't work for me at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I want him showing up if the story is right for him to be there. But as a regular member of the Avengers? No I wouldn't want him on the theam either.
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

So elf is what she said?  I thought she said she'd F Thor, as in you know what.  Seriously, that is what I thought.   
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 8:46pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 Larry Morris wrote:
I thought she said she'd F Thor, as in you know what...

It was.  They were playing "Marry, Fuck, Kill" IIRC.  
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Rob Ocelot
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

We probably shouldn't mention the TROUBLE mini-series from a few years back, which hinted that Peter is actually May's son, and the result of an unwanted pregnancy borne out of a fling with Richard. UGH.

I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth as I read that.

There are some stones you just shouldn't turn over because the bugs underneath are best left unseen...

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Liz is pretty much a cypher, and there's not a lot to invest in, regarding her potential as Peter's love interest. She feels like a plot device to get us to the much more interesting dynamic between Peter and Toomes in the last act. 

-----

I've felt Liz has always been more plot device than character. She went from a complication in Peter's relationship with Betty to a means of introducing Molten Man to a cog in all the Osborn drama to Peter's corporate rival in the current book.
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

So I have learned today how old or unhip I might be. I've never heard of the game MFK until today.



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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 July 2017 at 10:45pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I've felt Liz has always been more plot device than character. She went from a complication in Peter's relationship with Betty to a means of introducing Molten Man to a cog in all the Osborn drama to Peter's corporate rival in the current book.
++++++++

Yeah, but that's comic Liz. Since this is an In Name Only character, you'd think they could have done something new and more substantial with her. Of course, she's something of a red herring, since she's shuffled away at the end, with "MJ" set up as Peter's actual love interest for future films. I get why they set it up that way, but the lack of depth and investment in Liz kinda hurts this film and the stakes it tries to establish.

++++++++

...to Peter's corporate rival in the current book.

+++++++

Reason # 6,971 Spider-Man Comics Have Jumped The Shark.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 12:49am | IP Logged | 15 post reply


 QUOTE:
I get why they set it up that way, but the lack of depth and investment in Liz kinda hurts this film and the stakes it tries to establish.

Honestly, I thought it was a strength of the film. Despite my initial love of the first Raimi film, from the very start, I hated the "this...is all about a girl" line and how the Raimi films in general made MJ into Spider-Man's Lois Lane. Peter's love life is a complication to his heroics as Spider-Man, not its guiding force. The Webb films did the same thing by rushing into "The Death of Gwen Stacy". 

I liked that Liz was a disposable high school crush and served as a plot complication in fighting the Vulture, rather than being the reason he is fighting the Vulture.


 QUOTE:
Reason # 6,971 Spider-Man Comics Have Jumped The Shark.

Perhaps because I stuck through the JMS run (mostly for the JRjr art toward the end), but the current Spider-Man books have a long way to go before reaching the nadir of Spider-Man, the married public school teacher empowered by a mystic Spider totem, eating eyeballs, stabbing people with arm spikes, and invading Latveria with an Iron Man armor-clad Aunt May in THE OTHER, fighting off the sexual tension with the artificially aged, secret illegitimate lookalike daughter of his college girlfriend and his best friend's father in SINS PAST, and publicly revealing his secret identity in CIVIL WAR. 

Doc Ock masquerading as Spider-Man in the mindswapped body of Peter is still truer to Spider-Man than all that JMS crap. 
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David Miller
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 16 post reply


 QUOTE:
Liz was a disposable high school crush and served as a plot complication in fighting the Vulture, rather than being the reason he is fighting the Vulture.

I was worried Vulture would take his daughter hostage and ruin what had been reasonably consistent characterization. 
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Perhaps because I stuck through the JMS run (mostly for the JRjr art toward the end), but the current Spider-Man books have a long way to go before reaching the nadir of Spider-Man, the married public school teacher empowered by a mystic Spider totem, eating eyeballs, stabbing people with arm spikes, and invading Latveria with an Iron Man armor-clad Aunt May in THE OTHER, fighting off the sexual tension with the artificially aged, secret illegitimate lookalike daughter of his college girlfriend and his best friend's father in SINS PAST, and publicly revealing his secret identity in CIVIL WAR. 

Doc Ock masquerading as Spider-Man in the mindswapped body of Peter is still truer to Spider-Man than all that JMS crap. 
++++++++++++

I occasionally have trouble deciding what the nadir of the character's history is--the Clone Saga or the JMS/THE OTHER era, but I think the latter wins, if only for the sheer amount of awfulness and nastiness. The Clone Saga at least had some good storytelling going on, in amongst the padding and the ill-conceived idea of revealing that Peter was "really" the clone.

SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN # 226 (the "reveal of Peter of the clone, where he also smacks the pregnant Mary Jans across the room) made me quit Spider-Man comics for some time. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN # 512 (the reveal that Gwen Stacy cheated on Peter with Norman Osborn) made me quit modern comics altogether.

It probably can't get worse, but nothing I've heard about more recent runs has made me think the character has recovered from all of the crap he's endured since (at least) the early 90s.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Re: May Parker's age.

The character was created at a time when there were three basic age groups in comics: Kids (up to around 16 or so), Adults (hovering around 30), and Old Folk (60 and up). Not much in between. Young parents were rarely seen.

We can probably blame this on Andy Hardy. For those unfamiliar, he was the titular star of a long series of movies in the Thirties and Forties. He was played by Mickey Rooney, and his adventures centered around his friends and family, including his father, Judge Hardy, who looked at least fifty years older than teenaged Andy. So did Andy's mother.

This became something of a standard shorthand. Parents and other such authority figures looked MUCH older than their offspring. No way the audience can get confused about relationships that way!

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply


 QUOTE:
Some people hate elderly Aunt May, but I think she's a vital component of the mythos.

I can't imagine how anybody who read this story from which the panel comes could possibly "hate"[!] Aunt May...
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I can't imagine how anybody who read this story from which the panel comes could possibly "hate"[!] Aunt May...

Don't you GET it? You're SUPPOSED to hate Aunt May. It shows how COOL you are!!!

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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

"I can't imagine how anybody who read this story from which the panel comes could possibly "hate"[!] Aunt May..."

I think the problem comes from the point of too few panels like that and too many of the "poor old frail Aunt May" who could literally die if she found out that Peter was Spider-Man. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I think the problem comes from the point of too few panels like that and too many of the "poor old frail Aunt May" who could literally die if she found out that Peter was Spider-Man.

Over the years, I have discovered there are a lot of blood-thirsty fans out there!

They want(ed) Aunt May to DIE! They wanted Kitty Pryde to DIE!* And when I brought back the Kents, they wanted them to DIE!!

Too much negative energy expending in too small a space!!

______________

* This one I find particularly interesting/revealing. When the All New, All Different X-Men were introduced, there was an avalanche of mail from fans who wanted Wolverine to LEAVE so the Beast could come back. Just a few years later, as noted, the introduction of Kitty brought a torrent of mail calling for her DEATH.

WHAT HAPPENED!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I can't imagine how anybody who read this story from which the panel comes could possibly "hate"[!] Aunt May...
++++++++++

There seem to a lot of people who just don't get what Aunt May means to the mythos. They see her as a senile old lady whose various health crises have been overplayed, and who should just be killed off. And, of course, she WAS killed off in 1994, but got better.

Guys like Roger Stern showed what could be done with her: Make her strong and likable, ease up on the health scare stuff, and show that she's important to Peter, rather than a nagging albatross around his neck.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Like JB has talked about many times before, Spider-Man is a street-level character. Since it's fundamentally necessary that he be kept down to earth, Aunt May beautifully serves the function of grounding him.
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John Popa
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Posted: 17 July 2017 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I remember Chuck Dixon telling a story when he wrote "Robin" that the editors wanted to get rid of Tim Drake's dad because it 'complicated the secret identity.'  When they asked Chuck why he wanted to keep him he replied 'because he complicates the secret identity!'  He liked the challenge. 
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