| Author |
|
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 25 October 2013 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
I've always been able to "play the game" and suspend disbelief, immersing myself in the comics world. I have no problem with Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne arriving at the bank just as a robbery is taking place; I have no problem with Spider-Man appearing and then a bunch of animal-themed villains arriving out of nowhere; and I have no problem with Jor-El choosing to send Kal-El to Earth or a bat flying in Bruce Wayne's house. It's all part of the magic.
However, there are some things which make suspension of disbelief almost impossible. One was Harvey Dent happening to have some mental issues BEFORE becoming Two-Face or Peter David revealing that Bruce Banner had mental issues, also.
The one that really shocked me recently was Kid Flash's origin. I've been reading the first SHOWCASE volume for The Flash. I didn't really know much about Kid Flash and I knew his origin was in the pages of that book, so I was looking forward to seeing how young Wally West became The Flash. Well, I wish I hadn't read it now: the freak accident that gave Barry Allen his powers happened to Wally West, too, at a time when Barry Allen was giving West a tour of his forensic science lab. Not only did I think it was unoriginal to give West the same origin, but totally beyond reasonable suspension of disbelief.
I can accept flying superheroes or the Hulk's pants not falling off or Peter Parker walking past a bank as robbers enter it, but having Wally West become Kid Flash under exactly the same circumstances was a coincidence/convenience too far, even for a comic fan myself who has always immersed himself in the wonderful world of comics.
I quite like the origins of She-Hulk and Spider-Woman. They have much in common with their male counterparts, but their origins are slightly different. I'd have hated it if Jennifer Walters had wandered into the desert and gotten blasted by a gamma bomb; and I'd have hated it had Peter Parker taken Jessica Drew to a science exhibition and a radioactive spider had bitten her. If you're going to have spin-off characters, I think there should be some difference in their origins.
I will continue to read the adventures of Kid Flash as I work my way through the SHOWCASE volume. I won't hold it against him. And there's nothing really wrong with the stories/art, but it was quite a shocking disappointment to see him gain his powers in exactly the same way as The Flash did.
Any thoughts on this?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14830
|
| Posted: 25 October 2013 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
One was Harvey Dent happening to have some mental issues BEFORE becoming Two-Face
-----
I've discussed this before, but I don't understand the issue with this. Certainly, the way that it was done in the Animated Series, with Harvey Dent having an alternate personality called "Big Bad Harv" prior to his accident was silly. But the idea that Harvey Dent had some sort of mental issue prior to being disfigured does not seem extraordinary. Other people suffer disfiguring accidents, and they don't become supervillains. Is it a contrivance that someone with a genetic predisposition toward depression becomes depressed after a romantic breakup?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14830
|
| Posted: 25 October 2013 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Speaking of contrivances, the current "Secret Origin of Tony Stark" had the "reveal" that Tony was genetically engineered in the womb by aliens to become a super-genius with a penchant for armor in order to become the eventual pilot of some gigantic space armor. The finale reveals that Tony had not actually been genetically engineered, because
INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
he is not the Starks' biological child, but another child they adopted while they hid the genetically engineered baby from the aliens. So in order to hide the genetically engineered super-genius with a penchant for armor, they adopted a kid who eventually became a super-genius with a penchant for armor all on his own.
Oh, and the baby is Arno Stark, because 2020 is not so far in the future anymore. |
|
|
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Hogan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2053
|
| Posted: 25 October 2013 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
If I'm not mistaken, it was later revealed that Wally, as
the Flash, went into the Speed Force and back in time, and
became the bolt of lightning that hit the chemicals that
gave himself his powers.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 25 October 2013 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
But the idea that Harvey Dent had some sort of mental issue prior to being disfigured does not seem extraordinary. ••• A mental issue that would perfectly "prepare" him for a disfigurement suffered later in life? And a retcon at that? Coincidence and happenstance are staples of fiction, and are often needed to get a story started. But very little is gained by shoveling them into stories retroactively.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 25 October 2013 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
If I'm not mistaken, it was later revealed that Wally, as the Flash, went into the Speed Force and back in time, and became the bolt of lightning that hit the chemicals that gave himself his powers.••• Lucky he was able to hit exactly the right ones! The origin of Kid Flash was in the very first issue of THE FLASH I read as a child, and served as a tidy little intro to Barry, too. It did not occur to me that it was an outlandish coincidence. But, then, I was eight! (That bat flying thru Bruce Wayne's window was not a coincidence, btw. It would only have been such if he had ALREADY decided to adopt the bat as his emblem and was awaiting a "sign" that it was a good choice. As portrayed, it was an isolated incident that served as inspiration, but nothing more.)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14830
|
| Posted: 25 October 2013 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
If I'm not mistaken, it was later revealed that Wally, as
the Flash, went into the Speed Force and back in time, and
became the bolt of lightning that hit the chemicals that
gave himself his powers.
-----
You are thinking of the SECRET ORIGINS annual with the story that Barry, as he was dying during Crisis, transforms into electricity and become the thunderbolt that caused him to become the Flash.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2711
|
| Posted: 26 October 2013 at 3:06am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
I remember when reading that Flash story all those years ago getting to that final panel and thinking Robert Loren Fleming had really missed an opportunity.
Rather than The Flash becoming the lightning bolt that triggers the accident from which Barry Allen gained his powers, what if he had become the lightning bolt that stuck Wally West? Suddenly we go from ret-conning Barry Allen's accident into a paradox and leaving Wally West's accident as this enormous coincidence, and instead have this coincidence resolved as no coincidence at all, but rather the last heroic act of a dying Flash to ensure he has an heir and the world still has a speedster protector.
(As always I make my Teddy Roosevelt caveat, where it's much easier for the critic to point out where the doer of deeds could have done better, and far harder to do the work in the first place.)
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 26 October 2013 at 3:09am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 26 October 2013 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
As always I make my Teddy Roosevelt caveat, where it's much easier for the critic to point out where the doer of deeds could have done better, and far harder to do the work in the first place.•• Yes and no. Comics are not rocket science. It shouldn't be all THAT hard to tell when an idea is bone-headed. Unfortunately, DC has a history of being the place where bone-headed ideas go to be born.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15877
|
| Posted: 26 October 2013 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Unfortunately, DC has a history of being the place where bone-headed ideas go to be born.---------------------------------------------- Ha! The sad thing is that some of those bone-headed ideas started making their way over to Marvel over the years.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132620
|
| Posted: 26 October 2013 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
It's been a long time since there was a clear division of identity between Marvel and DC. Too much cross-pollination of the creative staffs (myself included!). Hell, the same guy has been EiC at BOTH companies!! There was a time when such a thing could not even have been imagined!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17997
|
| Posted: 26 October 2013 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Harvey Dent also operates under the convenience of being so completely scarred on one side while the other side is utterly pristine - but in this case taking the extra step of less-symmetrical trauma would really be a let-down to me.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
