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Topic: Skepticism Of Aliens/Supernatural (Fiction) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 August 2013 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 1  

I watched the first episode of POWER RANGERS MEGAFORCE tonight, which has just debuted in England.There was one scene where a character doubted the threat from alien life.

This felt odd. Throughout various POWER RANGERS shows, there have been all sorts of monsters/aliens stampeding through cities. It'd be most odd if a character didn't believe in such things.

It reminded me of an old Spider-Man comic I read. I can't remember the exact issue, it was probably from around 2000/01. There was a "scene" where a guy was in the lift at the Daily Bugle offices and talking about aliens, with people dismissing him like some crank. That seemed odd, too: in a world where aliens routinely invade the planet, it's impossible to believe there would be people dismissing a guy talking about aliens.

I could understand skepticism in shows like THE X-FILES. Mulder knew about the paranormal/alien worlds, but others in that fictional universe didn't. And if a character started talking about aliens on LAW AND ORDER or CSI, I'd understand characters' dismissing it, but in fictional universes where aliens are the norm, no-one would be dismissive.

It's not a very good comparison, but it'd be like me, living in this world, dismissing the possibility of foxes or rats, which I've seen hanging around the urban area I live in. In fictional universes, where alien invasions are routine, I doubt there'd be anyone questioning such things.

I don't want to overanalyze the wonder that comics give us, but there have been stories where superheroes have doubted the existence of ghosts/the supernatural. I'm sorry, but that is hard to accept as a reader. In a world where all sorts of ghosts/demonic creatures/supernatural beings appear, and with journalists and photographers covering it all, I don't accept that a superhero or supporting cast member could possibly doubt ghosts. In our world, one can dismiss such things if you don't believe in it - but if all sorts of creatures were invading New York City on a regular basis, we'd all be believers in no time.

I could go on. It's not just about aliens/ghosts. There was an episode of the Adam West BATMAN series where a cop from another city came to Gotham City, but had never heard of Batman. Sorry, but unless he was a hermit who never read papers/watched news shows, he *must* have heard of Batman.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Michael Murphy
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Posted: 07 August 2013 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 2  

I run into a similar situation every once in a while. I have been playing Dungeons & Dragons and other RPG's pretty much non-stop since the early 1980's. In most of those fantasy games the gods walk the earth and their works are everywhere but I still occasionally get a player who wants to play an atheist character. I don't tell them they can't (heck, I am all for atheists; I am one) but I try to explain to them that belief in gods and the supernatural in these fantasy settings is different than in the real world; in the game their existence is fact, not faith. Usually they get it but not always.

Fictional setting have their own set of rules and conceits that need to be internally consistent. Just because something is or is not true in "the real world" does not mean it is or is not in the fictional setting and it seems like some times people forget that. It can be quite jarring when it happens and take you right out of the story.


Edited by Michael Murphy on 07 August 2013 at 5:03pm
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Larry Lawrence
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Posted: 07 August 2013 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 3  

A lot of it is just the writer trying to set the story in a world that is similar to ours. In comics, one of the biggest fictions is how their world doesn't radically change from being like one we know into a technological futureville from all the super scientists and influx of alien technology. 

You are right, though, the writers don't have to bring clumsy scenes like those you mention. I think a better way to handle those scenes would be for someone to express skepticism because such things are supposed to be very rare. After all, the civilians shouldn't to be so jaded they react like this:


Edited by Larry Lawrence on 07 August 2013 at 5:08pm
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 August 2013 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 4  

The Dungeons and Dragons thing is a good example, Michael.

And, Larry, that's so how it should be, in my view.

I think there can be flexibility. Thinking of the TV series LOST (no spoilers), people did encounter things that they might not have encountered in their pre-island lives, so some skepticism understandable. But having someone mocked about their alien beliefs in the offices of the Daily Bugle is crazy, given the Daily Bugle would no doubt have ran many stories/photos of alien invasions.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 August 2013 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | 5  

One of the most standard tropes of the kind of serial fiction we do in comics is that people respond to things of a weird nature much the way we would over here in our world, EVEN THO THEY HAVE SEEN THESE THINGS HUNDREDS OF TIMES BEFORE.

The good people of Metropolis will always be surprised by visiting aliens, for instance, even tho their number one superhero is himself an alien. Roger Stern told a story, years ago, of the painful task of having to edit a Jack Kirby script (EDIT KIRBY!! HAND ME THAT RAZOR...!!!) in which Jack had Captain America encounter a crashed flying saucer and then, at the end, spend a few panels musing over this "first contact" with alien life. (This was NOT a flashback!)

Thing is, this is how it HAS to be done. Imagine how different the world would be if the Strange and Unusual were as commonplace as they are in comics and television series. That world would quickly become on with which the readers/viewers could not even begin to identify.

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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 07 August 2013 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 6  

Going beyond civilians, no member of the JSA or JLA could conceivably be an atheist since they've all teamed up with The Spectre at one time or another. Likewise in the Marvel U, Spider-Man has died (or been close enough to death) to speak to Uncle Ben a few times. Even if we discount gods like Thor, Orion, Zeus, Highfather, Odin, etc as merely supremely powerful aliens, you've then got to contend with the FF actually meeting God in Mark Waid's run (where God was Jack Kirby, and spoke to an unnamed collaborator on the phone while they were visiting). The JLA had an actual angel from Heaven on their team at one point. 

Both the Marvel and DCU seem to grant at least some basic tenets of Judeo-Christian mythology as being a factual basis for everything else.  
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 07 August 2013 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 7  

One of the issues with the Legion of Super-Heroes is that, while super-heroes abound and there's all sorts of soap operatic interconnectivity with the characters, the world in which they live is all but completely unrelatable.

The X-Men spend very little time in the "real world," yet it is always there somewhere in the background, with its various themes, promises, disappointments, and dangers waiting for the team to return to it.

The Legion's future is either unremarkable in all ways or it is only one thing, like a planet from Star Trek where the culture of the spot they beam down is the culture of the entire world. Sometimes the Legion's future is all about war with the Dominators. Or it is all about youthful repression. Or it is all about the Earth having destroyed itself.

Whatever it is, it is not a context with which the reader has any inherent connection or familiarity. It's just one more impossible thing on top of the other six they're being asked to believe before breakfast.

The New Gods has similar issues, but at least the Earth is still there to be menaced by all these cockamamie weirdos. We know the Earth. We get it. I may not see the particular appeal of Supertown, but I get it when Detroit is about to get an army of parademons dropped on top of it.

The Legion's surrounding are either all clean lines and spaceships or all rubble and small Giffen-fires smoldering on every side... Sometimes Mordru or, Heaven help us, Glorith takes over reality and things get all mideval for an issue or twelve, then back to clean lines or rubble...

It gets worse when Legionnaires are lost in time and must fight to find a way home again (this happens a LOT...) We, the reader, don't particularly care if they ever get home to that place we felt no affinity for. Heck, it's more fun watching them have to haggle over cab fare or try to figure out a parking meter. We understand those things. Why would we want to go back to where things are only all corrupt politicians (except for whichever Legionnaire's Mom or Dad happens to be President of the Earth that issue) or all plasti-domed cities... That stuff is just not interesting... The cab fare thing was at least kind of real.

Years back, I held court with friends on the topic of Professor Xavier's wheelchair. "C'mon!," I argued, "He knows Reed Richards. Hank McCoy's a super scientist in his own right. Prof. X could even phone Tony Stark if he wanted to... And yet he gets around in this backwards-tech, old-style wheelchair..."

Later, when the fans who were my age and who had obviously come to some of the same conclusions I had took over the book, there was Xavier in his golden, gleaming Shi'Ar tech single-person hovercraft, imperious... powerful... unrelatable.

And I had to admit I was wrong. From a storytelling perspective the clunky old wheelchair I found so appalling said that Prof. X was in fact injured and unable to walk. The world's most powerful mind was trapped in a body with non-functioning legs.

The 90's-era Shi'Ar hovermobile says "spacecraft" or "alien tech." Probably "heavily armed" as well. It does not convey in that same instant moment the wheelchair did what the essence of that character was.

Without those little moments, those little touchstones, to bring us back to the world in which we live, the whole messhuginah contrivance of comic storytelling comes apart.

 

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Glen Keith
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Posted: 08 August 2013 at 4:16am | IP Logged | 8  

"Going beyond civilians, no member of the JSA or JLA could conceivably be an atheist since they've all teamed up with The Spectre at one time or another."
==========================
And, yet, the modern Mr. Terrific* is written as an atheist, which is even more puzzling because he was convinced to become a superhero by the Spectre!


*Check the notes section.
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Glen Keith
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Posted: 08 August 2013 at 5:01am | IP Logged | 9  

This reminds me of a notion that I had a while back: That if you teamed up a mystical character (say, Dr. Strange) and a scientific character (say, Mr. Fantastic), and had them encounter an anomaly, the mystic interpretation would invariably need to be the correct one. Why? Because it's possible to have a skeptical, scientific type be wrong, and yet still be seen as smart, whereas to be  a believer and proven wrong will make that character look foolish.

The X-Files demonstrated this every week. Scully always came off as the smarter of the two characters, even though she was always wrong. Mulder was never depicted as especially smart, even though he was always right.

Can anyone think of a time where a mystical character was wrong about a paranormal event, and yet was still shown to be intellectual, and not foolish?
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 08 August 2013 at 5:20am | IP Logged | 10  

It reminds me of a movie in which Santa Claus is real, yet the adults don't believe in him. Which asks the question: where do they think the presents come from, then??

I could explain an atheist in the Marvel Universe because he doesn't think Thor is really a "god" and all mystic powers are just some unknown technology.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 08 August 2013 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 11  

Just as many believers here pick and choose from amongst the vast array of available religious dogma which elements sound right to them ("I believe God is Love and would never cruelly punish His children," "All dogs go to Heaven," or the always entertaining, "She respects and defends all Her living creatures...") I can picture intelligent, clear-headed denizens of our favorite fictional worlds allowing for there to be various dimensions and realms about which we know very little except that their inhabitants have powers, believe themselves to be Gods, and may have convinced our primitive ancestors of it. "I'M not buying it, of course, but some Australopithecus just out of the trees might..."

Zauriel, the Spectre, and the Phantom Stranger, whose existence literally prove aspects of Holy Scripture, could possibly even provide "proof" to those of a certain temperment that those stories were based on something, but clearly are not, in fact, true as the church would have us believe. The power of prayer or the notion that we all have angels watching over us, even eternal life after death, one might sniff, none of that is given concrete form by the presence of these characters. Therefore, we see how one could be fooled into believing in such things by drawing the wrong conclusions from those bits we DO see...

In trying to come up with an example to fit Glen's criteria above, so far the best I've been able to do is Shaggy and Scooby, who believe in the ghost every single time, are wrong, and come back next week to do it again. Of course, they do look kind of foolish doing so. I find the enormous talking dog a little scary myself... :-)

 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 August 2013 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 12  

…the Phantom Stranger, whose existence literally prove[s] aspects of Holy Scripture…

••

AAUUUGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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