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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I still can't bring myself to watch this thing.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 1:51am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Only watch it if you like seeing train wrecks.  I literally stumbled upon it waiting for my wife to finish some work and ended up watching it on a Sunday in which I had nothing else better to do.  At least I thought I had nothing better to do.  Doing a deep cleanse of the kitty litter box and cleaning out the fridge would have been a preferable way to spend two hours.  

Not kidding.  
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I'm not a cat guy, so I'll pass on the litter box.

But cleaning out the fridge or any other relatively unpleasant household chore is definitely a better use of time.

Don't do it, Kirkman. Just don't. The best part of that movie has her own movie, now. Enjoy that.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 28 August 2017 at 11:06am
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Y'see, if anyone has been paying attention, I LIKE trainwrecks, both in terms of their film analysis value, and "so bad they're good" entertainment.

The problem is that this particular case involves SUPERMAN and BATMAN, two of the greatest and most beloved characters in modern culture. It would be a painful thing to see them so mishandled. MAN OF STEEL was already bad enough.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Greg, you're really not getting the message. BvS is NOT entertaining. It is a "so bad, it's worse" experience. No one is exaggerating this here to be fun or wry or clever. It is an Ed Wood Superman/Batman movie, but without the clever turns and slick storytelling.

If you can refer to Batman and Superman as beloved - and that's legit - then this movie will not be fun or entertaining to you. You thought "Man of Steel" was bad? You're right, but this is worse.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Greg, you're really not getting the message. BvS is NOT entertaining.
+++++++

I didn't say it was. I'm speaking in generalities about bad movies, which can often be entertaining in their badness. Nothing about BvS looks entertaining.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

NEVER TOO YOUNG TO DIE is so bad, it's good. But the stakes are low. Gene Simmons as a hermaphrodite crime lord. John Stamos is a gymnast spy. Vanity as his partner. Robert Englund is an evil scientist. Cheesy 80's budget, stunt work, and soundtrack. Toot toot, all aboard this trainwreck!

BvS is extra horrible because the stakes were high. You want it it to be good. But, it's so bad, it's really  bad. Don't get on that train. Leave the station. Drive far away.


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 26 August 2017 at 9:42am
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Nothing about BvS looks entertaining.

******

Trust your instincts, young padawan. 
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 26 August 2017 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 9 post reply


BvS almost perfectly encapsulates just about everything wrong, dunderheaded, and despicable in the average, stereotypical big-budget comic book film.

If there's anything you've hated in those other films, it's all here, folks.



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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 27 August 2017 at 1:07am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I liked the stylized S being Martha Kent's handiwork, myself.

---

That's fine by me. The "S" being the House of El symbol is OK by me too, mainly because the first exposure to Superman that I can remember is the 1978 movie.

But the "hope" bit...yeah no thanks. 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 27 August 2017 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I was watching a YouTube video from some reviewers I follow and they brought up thus film in discussing Warner Brothers' plans for the new Joker movie. 

It was irritating to me that at one point, while rightly denouncing BvS, they said one of the problems was being TOO FAITHFUL to the source material.  Uh, no... Had the movie actually been faithful to the comics,  it would not have been the piece of shit it was. But, once again, critics and Hollywood try to blame comics for bad comic book films.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 27 August 2017 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Matt: Further discussion on the video you observed... the key question is "Which source material?" 1940s Superman? (That wouldn't have worked with John and Mary Kent). 1960s Joker (whose only homicidal tendencies were toward the Caped Crusader and the Boy Wonder)? 1980s Batman (who has returned, struck again, and come back from the pharmacy?)

I believe that EVERY director/producer wants their super hero movie to be based on part of the comics, but also part of THEIR vision - so that they are part of the great legacy. I see this a lot in Abrams' Star Trek films...
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 28 August 2017 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

How about the source material where Superman is not a dour douche bag and Batman doesn't casually kill people? It's abundant.

Even Miller's crotchety old post-retirement Batman had a problem with killing. Seems like everyone one wants their cake and to bash its head in, too. "Let's have the crusty, hyper-violent Batman of The Dark Knight Returns, but, fuck it, let's have him kill people."

"TOO FAITHFUL to the source material"...???

Do they want both guys to be even bigger assholes? Lex Luthor to go full Jar-Jar?





Edited by Brian Rhodes on 28 August 2017 at 11:20am
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 28 August 2017 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

let's have him kill people.
-----------------------------------
To be fair, that was the whole arc of the plot of the film.  That many years of bad, bitter experience was taking its toll on Batman.  He never quite crossed the line into directly murdering someone, but he was pretty casual about the fact that criminals were dying as a direct and foreseeable result of his actions, and he was moving in the direction of just straight up killing.  This was the whole point of the speech Alfred gave him.

The arc is that by meeting Superman, Batman was inspired to pull back from the brink, and to return to being the hero he once was.

This was all done in a pretty hamfisted way, and mingled with a bunch of other equally hamfisted thematic plot elements, but its unfair to just say, "They had Batman kill people to be cool..." or suchlike.  It was supposed to be a story of Superman's noble example pulling Batman back out of the darkness.
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Brian Rhodes
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Posted: 28 August 2017 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

But...he killed guys in the process of saving Superman's mom. So, when, exactly, did he "pull back"?


Edited by Brian Rhodes on 28 August 2017 at 11:56am
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 28 August 2017 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

ONE FOGEY'S OPINION: The instant that super heroes start killing, the writing has gone to hell. I allow exceptions in the earliest years when writers were trying to get a handle on how super heroes would interact, so Superman, the Spectre, Batman, Captain America, Namor (once he was a hero), the Human Torch - had to eventually come around to not killing. DISCUSSION: I don't think many had an issue with the killing of Nazis - but then, super heroes didn't really fit in war either.

It used to be an accepted part of the genre that super heroes are BETTER than normal folks, and didn't have to kill. I'm trying to remember when the first deliberate killing by a Big Two super hero occurred after the start of the Silver Age... deliberate as in the opposite of , "Oh no! He died! I didn't want him dead... but it happened."

Who trusts Superman or Batman in that universe now? I mean, it may indicate that smaller time villains are going to get away from Gotham and Metropolis, and of course, the Joker is just plain nuts. Why would someone want Superman around? How many more shiploads of Kryptonians could there be? Is it worth having Superman around when he destroyed a significant portion of Metropolis? Is ANYONE safe in Gotham City when Batman has started killing crooks? Are jaywalkers and litterers safe?

I know it became cool as the glum and gritty 80s progressed, and it's hard not to see Wolverine as a progenitor of this*. But it leads to situations as in BvS. Wonder Woman is a warrior... she'd understand the "kill or be killed" mentality. Superman vs Zod... MAYBE. But how could she possibly pardon Batman's actions?

I hate super heroes killing unless in direst circumstances. And those circumstances are crappy writing or directing.

*The Punisher is NOT a hero. He should, at best, be considered an anti-hero... and at worst, be in a maximum security prison.


Edited by Eric Sofer on 28 August 2017 at 4:17pm
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David Lopez
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Posted: 29 August 2017 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Brian Rhodes: "Do They want Lex Luthor... to go full Jar Jar?"


I would not have thought it possible, but Jesse Eisenberg's..."interpretation" (ahem) of Lex Luthor was somehow even more cringeworthy and cartoonish than Jar Jar Binks, and sits in the top ten of the other innumerable reasons that make BvS worthy of loathing.

Man, this is a bad movie.


Edited by David Lopez on 29 August 2017 at 9:57am
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 29 August 2017 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

 Steve De Young wrote:
To be fair, that was the whole arc of the plot of the film.  That many years of bad, bitter experience was taking its toll on Batman.  He never quite crossed the line into directly murdering someone, but he was pretty casual about the fact that criminals were dying as a direct and foreseeable result of his actions, and he was moving in the direction of just straight up killing.  This was the whole point of the speech Alfred gave him.

We could argue all day whether or not this is a valid story to tell, one in which Batman doesn't really care about the consequences of his actions so much so that he's perfectly fine killing (directly or indirectly) scores of henchmen.  I'll just say that I think it was awful.  I don't think the character, even in his darkest moments, would need to be pulled back from the brink by the example of another hero. And if we're being completely honest, the Batman of BvS crossed that line.  He wasn't standing at the edge.  He had no compunction utilizing the weapons of the Batmobile to kill.  He's too smart to not think those actions would result in death.

As far as the example set by another hero for Batman to follow?  The Superman of MoS didn't really care about the millions he put in danger by not even attempting to take the fight with Zod outside of Metropolis, not to mention his murder of Zod at the end of the film.  Certainly not a sterling example of restraint nor of putting others ahead of yourself (the kiss with Lois while Metropolis is literally falling down around them being but one egregious example).  Yes, I understand they tried to address this in BvS, but it was hamfisted at best and at worst felt absolutely insincere. 
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Brandon Frye
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Posted: 29 August 2017 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

From everything I've seen and read, this is Dark Knight Returns meets Death Of Superman in half the time and twice the budget. 

Did I miss anything?

 
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 29 August 2017 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

But...he killed guys in the process of saving Superman's mom. So, when, exactly, did he "pull back"?
----------------------------
Lex Luthor at the end.  Again, I'm not saying they did it well, they did it quite poorly, just acknowledging that that's what they were trying to do.
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 29 August 2017 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I watched BvS with a friend a few months ago. She's not a huge comic
book or superhero nut at all but she LOVES Wonder Woman and
wanted to watch it just for her. She thought it was "okay". She loved
WW's entrance, thought the actual fight between between Superman
and Batman was "dumb" ("Why does Superman give up trying to talk to
Batman so easily? They're so stupid!"), but my favorite thing she said
was in regards to Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor: "Who's he supposed to be
again? Does he become the Riddler or something?"

Edited by Eric Smearman on 29 August 2017 at 7:22pm
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