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Michael Penn
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Posted: 13 May 2013 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

"A man who lies merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."
-- Robert Bolt, Lawrence of Arabia
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 13 May 2013 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I think a major failing of the prequels is the fact that the Jedi come off
as boring, arrogant characters. Kenobi is about the only one who has
some wit and energy to him, largely because of McGregor's charm. I
really wish McGregor had been given better material to work with,
because I can see him doing a bang-up job with the original backstory,
and pushing Vader into that volcano at the climax.

Yoda's too cutesy and fortune-cookie-message-giver in the prequels
for my tastes, and he lost the mix of playful charm and heavy wisdom
he'd had in EMPIRE.

The prequels attempted to bring Kenobi back to being the noble
straight-arrow he was in the original film. He's not really responsible for
anything that goes wrong, save for his (unfortunately necessarily, plot-
wise, since Lucas had painted himself into a corner) utter failure to,
y'know, put his burning friend out of his misery/make sure that Vader's
really dead.


The original film gave the impression that the Jedi and Father
Skywalker were tragic heroes to be mourned, not creepy a**holes who
kinda deserved it.

Let's be honest: the only emotion in the Order 66 sequence comes from
John Williams, not from seeing alien Jedi extras whom we don't know
or care about getting killed.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 13 May 2013 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Fair points, Greg. The Jedi of the prequels are a dull, effete bunch.

Agree with what you say about Yoda's lack of depth and intelligence and the perfunctory Order 66.scenes.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 May 2013 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Lucas has at last admitted, in writing, that he did not have a master plan worked out when STAR WARS was released. Still, we can look at the fabricated version, "The Tragedy of Darth Vader," and see the inversion of the backstory as told by Ben Kenobi. There IS a tragedy there, but it is one of arrogance, human weakness and betrayal.

If Lucas had only stuck to that story, we might have had a real "saga" for the ages, and not a patchwork that shreds if anyone really looks at it.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 14 May 2013 at 1:14am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The inherent problem is that, while the Father Vader backstory is a
brilliant one with tons of dramatic potential, it's not the story Lucas
began to tell.


Changing the spine of the plot while in mid-story is...well...cheating!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 14 May 2013 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

As noted, PLANET OF THE APES Syndrome -- to make the "sequel", we erase the original.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 14 May 2013 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

GREG: The inherent problem is that, while the Father Vader backstory is a
brilliant one with tons of dramatic potential, it's not the story Lucas
began to tell.

Changing the spine of the plot while in mid-story is...well...cheating!

SER: I wouldn't mind the change if it made sense and didn't negatively impact character.

I personally wouldn't have made Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader the same person. Basically have Vader reveal he's Luke's son (information not even Kenobi knew), which would add new meaning to "betrayed" and murdered Skywalker. Unfortunately, that's a bit too salacious for the type of film Lucas was making*

*Though I recall some war films where this plot device is used in a relatively family friendly way -- soldier is believed lost in conflict, close friend of soldier "comforts" grieving widow, soldier returns unexpectedly and so on.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 14 May 2013 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I found myself wondering if there was any way to do the "real" story in the same manner as the STAR TREK fumetti I've been playing with. Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough images for what I need.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 14 May 2013 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Basically have Vader reveal he's Luke's son (information not even Kenobi knew), which would add new meaning to "betrayed" and murdered Skywalker.

****************

What? Are you bringing time travel into it?

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 14 May 2013 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I think a major failing of the prequels is the fact that the Jedi come off 
as boring, arrogant characters.

----

I thought that was to service the whole "Tragedy of Darth Vader" story. Anakin's actions were partially justified because the Jedi were arrogant bastards who had it coming to them. 

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 14 May 2013 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I found myself wondering if there was any way to do the "real" story in
the same manner as the STAR TREK fumetti I've been playing with.
Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough images for what I need.
++++++++++

Yer killin' me, Byrne!


FIND A WAY, MAN!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 15 May 2013 at 4:32am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Anakin's actions were partially justified because the Jedi were arrogant bastards who had it coming to them.

Yeah, those kids were really asking for it!

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