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Jason Mark Hickok
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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

That is fantastic. Thanks for that.
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I want that sketch! 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I want that sketch!

Already gone! Sorry!

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Paul Greer
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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I knew I should have said pretty please.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Makes me wonder if The Voice would be entirely synthetic, too.

That's what I assumed, watching the movie the first time in 1977. The rythm of the "iron lung" had no effect on Vader's speech.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

As Ben Burtt has said, the early mixes went way overboard, with all
sorts of motor/electronic sounds for Vader, after the concept of The
Duel was established. Eventually, this was pared down to that cold,
rhythmic breathing.

From time to time, I've wondered what the pre-injury Vader of the
original backstory would have looked like.


I seem to recall someone posting a fantasy casting photo of a badass-
looking Christian Bale in the role, which felt about right. I would imagine
an edgy, intense young warrior who would contrast with the older and
more restrained duo of Kenobi and Skywalker.

Before the prequels, I couldn't quite envision the kindly-looking
Sebastian Shaw as being retroactively behind that mask in STAR
WARS and EMPIRE, and I still can't. Nor Christensen. Something
closer to JB's sketch is more what I'd wished for--a monstrous face for
a monstrous person.


And, by the way, as soon as this topic came up, the first thing that
came to mind was, "Sathanas--but worse!", which JB certainly delivered
on.
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 09 May 2013 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I want that sketch!

Already gone! Sorry!

Sorry in that someone else got it (which would be OK) or trashed it?

If the second, I just have one thing to say...........................




Edited by Jodi Moisan on 09 May 2013 at 10:36pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 4:00am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I seem to recall someone posting a fantasy casting photo of a badass-looking Christian Bale in the role, which felt about right. I would imagine an edgy, intense young warrior who would contrast with the older and more restrained duo of Kenobi and Skywalker.

Many a moon ago, Glenn Greenberg mentioned Bale as good casting, and I found a picture of Bale looking very much how young Vader had looked in my head.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 4:01am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

By the way -- to spare Jim Warden a potential deluge, this doodle is just that, a doodle, to amuse. It does not mean I will now accept STAR WARS commission requests!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

This reminds us that Lucas really DIDN'T have it "all worked out". In fact, his throwaway reference to Ben having tossed Vader into a volcano, after his student murdered his best friend, TRAPPED Ol' George. All the Warheads glombed onto that, and knew it HAD to be a part of how Annikin became Vader. So we got that stupid, sadistic scene in the "prequel".

The Obi-Wan Kenobi we met in the original STAR WARS could easily have been driven to the point where, in a fit of rage, he threw an enemy into molten lava. But he would not have simply ABANDONED him to such a fate after MUTILATING him!

Of course, the strong, kind, compassionate, NOBLE Kenobi died when the second film was released and Lucas transformed him into a manipulative liar.

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Monte Gruhlke
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I still think that Kenobi's comment (and later deemed a protective lie) about Vader "killing Luke's father" doesn't make him the asshat manipulative liar every is eager to make him out to be. Despite Lucas' ham-handed approach in expanding upon the original film, Kenobi still comes off as a someone who is shielding Luke from the horrible truth. 

Let's pretend that Lucas had some of this worked out in advance like he pretends he did how do you think Luke's path in the original movie may have changed if Kenobi would have said something like 

"This was your father's saber. He has been a mass-murderer of men, women and even children for over twenty years. Had he know of you and your twin sister, he would have killed you in your crib. Now he goes by the name of Lord Vader, and he serves the darker, malevolent side of the force. If he has the Princess as the droid suggests, you can be rest-assured that she is suffering greatly under his care if she isn't already dead."
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I still think that Kenobi's comment (and later deemed a protective lie) about Vader "killing Luke's father" doesn't make him the asshat manipulative liar every is eager to make him out to be. Despite Lucas' ham-handed approach in expanding upon the original film, Kenobi still comes off as a someone who is shielding Luke from the horrible truth.

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Paul Greer
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

That was something I never understood. Vader actually knew Princess Leia yet the force never once gave him a clue that she was his daughter. The dark side ended up being pretty lame in the power department.  
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

As I have noted on many a previous occasion, STAR WARS has become a victim of what I call PLANET OF THE APES Syndrome. We start with a one-off, but then "sequels" and even "prequels" are added which actually so alter the story that the original no longer fits.

Everything Lucas and his hired writers "added" really subtracted from the story as presented in the original. (And this is without even factoring in the "Lucasizing" of the original -- scenes actually being CHANGED in order to accommodate George's shifting "vision".)

I mentioned recently that other works that have succumbed to PotA Syndrome include STAR TREK, THE MATRIX, ROBOCOP and I supposed even MEN IN BLACK, since the most recent sequel does not really "fit" with what went before.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Remembered just now that I still had a copy on my harddrive of a drawing I did for a friend, a few years back. Himself as Darth Vader. So, a little cut and paste and. . .

Obviously the line quality on the, er, little head doesn't quite match up to the much larger original I pasted it into!

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

That was something I never understood. Vader actually knew Princess Leia yet the force never once gave him a clue that she was his daughter. The dark side ended up being pretty lame in the power department.  

----

She obviously had a low midichlorian count. *cringe*
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DW Zomberg
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

shielding Luke from a horrible truth

Is Luke a fragile twelve year old, or an adult who should be treated as such? There was no reason for Kenobi to "lie," and no reason to retcon him into a liar.

 

 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

There was no reason for Kenobi to "lie," and no reason to retcon him into a liar.

This is the part that truly astonishes me about those who have drunk the Kool-Aid. EMPIRE began by disassembling STAR WARS and using the parts to build a whole different story. Yet those of us who complained were -- and still are -- dismissed as some kind of freaks.

As I have said before, since all we in the audience have to guide us thru the story is what the storyteller tells us, if the storyteller decides to say "changed my mind", he better have a MUCH better reason than "I wanted to make this longer". (And he better not try telling us he HASN'T changed his mind, either!)

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Imagine a young Alec Guinness (or, more realistically, an actor cast as
young Kenobi, perhaps even McGregor) fighting Christian Bale over a
volcano, with the result being the composite Vader image JB posted
above.

Works for me! Way cooler than what we got.

Edited by Greg Kirkman on 10 May 2013 at 12:59pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

The Leia thing was a twist too far. The Vader/Luke thing is imperfect, but I don't see it as being a disastrous decision. No aspect of the Leia thing works. Luke's faith in Vader's ability to be redeemed felt missplaced to me and then Vader's sudden switching against the Emperor didn't work for me either. I'd have believed he could have turned against the Emperor out of greed or anger, but not out of virtue.

Awesome composite picture of Vader btw!
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Yeah, he feel the Force in Luke, but not in Luke's twin sister. And wasn't it stated somewhere that the Force is strong in the Skywalker family? So strong that Vader can't even feel it in his own daughter?
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Manuel Tavares
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply


Yeah, he feel the Force in Luke, but not in Luke's twin sister. And wasn't it stated somewhere that the Force is strong in the Skywalker family? So strong that Vader can't even feel it in his own daughter?
Brian Miller

Yes, that is something that bugs me even more than the "unmasking".
Leia is a twin sister of luke, daughter of the guy that was born without human father, he was conceived out of a major midichlorians concentration and so on and so forth , and everything Leia can do during three long movies is shouting at Vader, shooting a laser gun and dressed as slave for Java. 

She should have been a Jedi!
I don't get it!
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 10 May 2013 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

The Force is sexist. 
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Monte Gruhlke
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Posted: 11 May 2013 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

shielding Luke from a horrible truth

Is Luke a fragile twelve year old, or an adult who should be treated as such? There was no reason for Kenobi to "lie," and no reason to retcon him into a liar.

Because that theme has never been done before? By this logic, EVERY use of protecting someone from the truth (agreed, usually a poor choice on the teller's behalf) means that the teller is a manipulative bastard who can never be trusted.

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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 11 May 2013 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I never bought the Leia reveal. I went along with Darth Vader as Luke's
father because I thought it would be revealed that Vader was a clone of
Luke's true father (Clone Wars being mentioned in the original). Leia
being Luke's twin sister seemed to be a lame way of resolving a love
triangle.
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