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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16499
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 12:23am | IP Logged | 1
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Andrew W. Farago wrote:
| ...Anyone here ever go to art school?... |
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I'm pretty certain that JB did.
Andrew wrote:
| ... I majored in studio art in college, and we had weekly portfolio reviews during senior year where the professors would critique a piece, students would weigh in, too, and I got my ego crushed flat every single week. I became a much better artist over the course of those critiques, which were absolutely brutal, but educational. The critiques that Larsen posted would have been downright positive amidst the ones my professors doled out... |
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So...
You are suggesting that Erik Larsen is the "professor" and JB, the "student"? -- That Larsen is "schooling" JB, and that he should accept this as an education?
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 12:56am | IP Logged | 2
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Is completely missing my point something that you're able to do automatically, or are you putting a concerted effort into it? I'm trying to get a sense of how many people who felt that Larsen was being particularly harsh have been through art critiques themselves before.
And Larsen wouldn't be a "professor," in this case, I'd guess he's a fellow student. Maybe some punk, know-it-all freshman who's poking shots at an upperclassman, but both of them have been working professionally for decades.
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Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 1:30am | IP Logged | 3
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Lars, could you explain that comment, sir?
''''''
No, beause I think nobody understood the "zen" of that seven little shit statement.
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2830
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 2:52am | IP Logged | 4
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Is completely missing my point something that you're able to do automatically, or are you putting a concerted effort into it? I'm trying to get a sense of how many people who felt that Larsen was being particularly harsh have been through art critiques themselves before.
It seems to be me the only one missing the point here is you. As I touched on earlier in my post, there is a big difference between fan criticism, critical reviews and even professor/teacher art critiques of students and PROFESSIONAL INDUSTRY PEERS not only criticizing but posting unsolicited "corrections" of their fellow professionals work in a public forum. It's tacky, rude...just bad form. Do you seriously not get that? Moreover, Larsen's history of passive-aggressive (and not so passive) shots at JB further cement that he was not doing this innocently with the best of intentions.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 3:44am | IP Logged | 5
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"Is completely missing my point something that you're able to do automatically, or are you putting a concerted effort into it?"
Oh dog, the point is that Andy here will unfailingly, publicly rush to the defense of just about any talentless (but coincidentally famous and successful) hack regardless of the stupidity of what the guy has done.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 18 March 2013 at 3:44am
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 4:20am | IP Logged | 6
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Oh dog, the point is that Andy here will unfailingly, publicly rush to the defense of just about any talentless (but coincidentally famous and successful) hack regardless of the stupidity of what the guy has done. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I feel like there is a bit of a gang up on Andrew. Which I think is unfair. He has a right to defend Larsen. Lets not kill him for it. Larsen may not be the best artist neither is John Byrne for that matter. He's damn good thou.
In the case of Larsen it is wrong to say he is talentless cause that is a wrong statement. It is an opinion which is a fair one. But lets not get into that. I mean I've been to Rob Liefield's website many times over the years and the people there love his work and think he is better than John Byrne. To me that sentiment is insane but it is their opinion and they're entitled to it.
Anyone he has gone to art school knows about the critiques. We who have done anything art related know about that being it from other artists, clients, fans etc.. It's going to happen. We do it here on the forum all the time. It is what it is.
My problem with what Larsen did was altering other people's artwork without being ask to do so. It is a huge difference between him doing it and John Romita sr doing it futher up in this thread. Not because Romita is a better artist but because he wazs the art director at Marvel Comics at the time and it was part of his job to do so.
Let us remember we are all forum members here and for the most part we are decent to each other. Let us keep this forum better than others on the web and not treat each other disrespectfully.
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:14am | IP Logged | 7
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The fact is that if it were Neal Adams or Alan Davis "correcting" a few Byrne pages, I doubt anyone would take issue with it. They're all "elite" as far as I'm concern and get to do that sort of thing among peers. The case here is that an artist that I'm sure is generally regarded as having inferior technical and conceptual skills, compared to JB, is correcting his work.
It's absurd. You don't "correct" the art of senior creators who have far superior skills sets than you do who have been at it, professionally, longer and have had more success. At this point, don't we all feel that Neal Adams and JB know how to draw comics? I could understand if Larsen was doing this for aspiring non-professionals, but comic legends? Please.
I can't wait for the eventual facebook posts of Bendis and Matt Fraction correcting old scripts by Alan Moore and Frank Miller. Sheesh.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:21am | IP Logged | 8
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The fact is that if it were Neal Adams or Alan Davis "correcting" a few Byrne pages
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I would take an issue with it. If these "corrections" were done by altering the artwork. Heck if they were to alter my artwork. I'd have a problem and those two have forgotten more about art then I'll ever know.
Unless it is being done in a school setting or was asked to be done. It should never be done no matter who the artist are.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 9
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"I feel like there is a bit of a gang up on Andrew. Which I think is unfair. He has a right to defend Larsen. Lets not kill him for it. Larsen may not be the best artist neither is John Byrne for that matter. He's damn good thou."
======================
No, I think it's a matter of our patience for Andrew wearing very thin. I mean he seems to pick his battles very stupidly (i.e. Slott, NuMarvel and others I may have forgotten) and fights them with an even thicker persistence. But I don't he's a stupid person. It tells me that he's probably some kind of aspiring pro trying to curry favor with those idiots.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 18 March 2013 at 5:28am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:28am | IP Logged | 10
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The fact is that if it were Neal Adams or Alan Davis "correcting" a few Byrne pages, I doubt anyone would take issue with it.•• It would depend entirely on context -- a point which seems lost on Larsen, as well as a few posters on this Forum, apparently. Neal Adams, in fact, DID correct my artwork, very early in my pursuit of a career in comics. I met him up at the DC offices in 1971, and he was kind enough to look at my portfolio and offer comments on areas where he felt I needed improvement. For that matter, also in the Seventies, I got a "crit" (as we called them in art school) from Stan Lee and John Romita Sr, together. It was very informative, and very welcome. Down thru the years I have received helpful input from many artists, including Al Milgrom, Joe Staton, Walt Simonson, and even (albeit in a minor way -- I would have loved more!) Jack Kirby. There are few artists who cannot benefit from constructive criticism. Unfortunately, that is not what Larsen is offereing.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12708
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:36am | IP Logged | 11
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I got a "crit" (as we called them in art school) from Stan Lee and John Romita Sr, together
***
Swoon...!
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:39am | IP Logged | 12
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Let us remember we are all forum members here and for the most part we are decent to each other. Let us keep this forum better than others on the web and not treat each other disrespectfully.
Reread this a few times Joe, so it sinks in .
Andrew, Do you not see how petty and offending it is that Larsen is "correcting " another professionals finished work, in a very public forum?
I have NEVER seen another creative professional do that in the manner Larsen did it and JB has put in enough time and work, to have that respect afforded to him. Larsen is good and I LOVE his politics and religious beliefs, looks like a guy I would like. But what he did here is wrong and comes off as petty and reflects badly on him. I have zero beef with him. But what he did was just unprofessional. It's not just about JB, he did it to Neal Adams too.
I went to the facebook page where he did this and his comment does not seem to be about this being a helpful critique, he does seem to have an ax to grind and the motivation behind it , to me, seems mean spirited.
Andrew do you honestly think what Larsen did was professional?
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 18 March 2013 at 5:42am
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Topic Closed)
