Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Star Trek
Byrne Robotics > Star Trek << Prev Page of 199 Next >>
Topic: STAR TREK: NEW VISIONS - Origins and Updates Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Paul Newland
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 120
Posted: 19 August 2017 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I'm a bit more charitable when it comes to technobabble even if I think that the best stories are the ones with a human(oid) focus. 

Star Trek fans form a broad church, with many of them being scientists and engineers who appreciate some sciency stuff in the story-telling, plus with so many stories told over such a long period, the writers have to try new avenues every now and then, one of them including technobabble.  There is a sweet spot with just enough technobabble, just enough action, just enough humour, and just enough romance to keep everyone happy, but you can't use that same mix in every episode.

Still, I think you're right that some people feel the need to rationalise every crumb of information.  The problem seems to be that if someone tries to nail something down specifically, someone else will come along and explicitly contradict it for the sake of their story (e.g. JJ Abrahms... shudder).  That seems to be the case with even the most basic fictional technology though. 

We had the ship travelling at Warp 15 in TOS and that was super fast and we all knew that.  Then some bright spark thought it needed to be expressly stated that Warp 10 (not Warp 20) is the fastest any ship can go so the nerds felt they had to reinvent the warp wheel.  This was despite the fact that someone else had invented transwarp drive and the writer could have just layered a transwarp scale on top of the original scale.

For my part, my personal bugbear is that it was a mistake to ever let anybody transport without a pad, a communicator, or a transporter tag.  It adds a layer of peril and prevents easy resolution without the need to invent some new barrier.  They did this in Blakes 7, I think.  The purpose of the transporter is to easily convey characters from one scene to another rather than affect the plot, albeit there is a sweet spot there too.




Edited by Paul Newland on 19 August 2017 at 8:53pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 20 August 2017 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The transporter was the piece of TREK equipment that got the fastest and loosest treatment, mostly because conceptually it was complete fantasy.

The earliest example was, of course, "The Enemy Within", in which the tech was treated as magic. Considering they were literally making it up as they went along, though, TOS had the fewest offenses, and most of them were based on not really having figured out how the transporter would work. In that same episode, Sulu and a landing party are beamed back to the ship nearly frozen to death and requiring medical attention. Obviously, if the transporter worked as it was shown to work, they could all have been fully restored on the "trip" back to the ship.*

That was all in the name of "drama", of course, but over the many iterations of STAR TREK that led to some truly sloppy applications of the device.

________

* It would have cost them a few hours of memory, but worth it, right? The medical applications of the transporter were relentlessly ignored in most cases.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 20 August 2017 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I'll ammend my statement above, to note that when the duplicated Crewman Green beamed back to the ship in "The Man Trap" all kinds of alarms should probably have sounded. After all, for the transporter to work properly it would have to make a recording of each individual as they beamed down, to use as reference to make sure they were correctly assembled on the return.

There's much debate about how "Nancy's" powers work, whether by hypnosis or metamorphosis, but either way that was NOT Green who came home.

(Altho, again, one wonders if the transporter, finding "Green's" patterns to be so far out of alignment, would have "fixed" them, and the story would have ended there!)

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 20 August 2017 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

This morning I spent some time downloading images from "The Galileo Seven," one of my least favorite episodes, yet choc-a-bloc with useable shots.

In doing so, I noticed something curious. Most of you will recall, I am sure, the way a piece of gauze appeared to mask Marianne Hill's cleavage when she was crawling around those air ducts in "The Dagger of the Mind". As I was collecting images of Spock, McCoy and Scotty, I could not help but notice* guest star Phyllis Douglas crawling around, deep cleavage on display for all to see.

Perhaps it was because she was in the background that made this acceptable to the censors?

______________________

* Don't swing at the easy ones.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Paul Newland
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 120
Posted: 21 August 2017 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I enjoy the Galileo 7.  I just feel that most of the shuttle crew need a hard slap. I think Marianne Hill was very 'front and centre' while Phyllis Douglas wasn't the only thing on screen.  Who knows how visible her cleavage would even have been on sixties' resolution TVs?  High Definition is a wondrous invention.

I've just been watching the Doomsday Machine and I suddenly realised why I find the Star Trek 09 movie to be so annoying.  Going back to the subject of finding the technobabble sweet spot, the TOS episode covers off the 'easy escapes' with ship damage and communications interference leaving the characters to think tactically with what they have left.

NuTrek's Kirk was essentially advocating Decker's ill-thought out strategy but in that movie, there was nothing really wrong with communications (in fact, a hand held communicator in the next movie had no trouble phoning the Solar System from the Klingon system, so comms are really easy even in enemy territory).  All the highly trained Starfleet officers just forgot that their first priority is to warn Starfleet.  Spock was planning to fly to the fleet in the opposite direction, begging the question, who thought it would be a good idea not to have SOME kind of vessel capable to communicating close to the training area to convey emergency details?

Getting bogged down in technobabble is bad, but forgetting the basic technological basis of your fictional universe is worse!  Makes nitpicking fun though.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Marten van Wier
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 August 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 389
Posted: 22 August 2017 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I know this isn't the right topic for it Mr Byrne but I just found out that you also worked on several Space 1999 stories. That was rather a surprise.

You would not have happened to have worked on any Battlestar Galactica or Buck Rogers in the 25th Century comics would you?
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 23 August 2017 at 12:44am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

'Fraid not!
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 23 August 2017 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Tinkering today with a model of the corridors outside Engineering, working with what we "know" rather than what we saw. This includes the Jefferies Tube, whose position and purpose was not made entirely clear on TOS.*

It was in the short, straight corridor immediately opposite the entrance to the Engine Room, but given the supposed location of Scotty's domain within the Secondary Hull, that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense!

________________________

* Tho on VOYAGER I grew weary fast of them invoking the term three or four times per episode (or so it seemed), and especially referencing multiple tubes. I began to get a picture in my mind of Voyager's interior looking like a packet of drinking straws, there seemed to be so many "Jefferies Tubes."

Back to Top profile | search
 
Ted Downum
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1837
Posted: 23 August 2017 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Paul Newland: I've just been watching the Doomsday Machine.... Going back to the subject of finding the technobabble sweet spot, the TOS episode covers off the 'easy escapes' with ship damage and communications interference leaving the characters to think tactically with what they have left.

*****

"The Doomsday Machine" has a great example of that very significant technobabble contrast.

Auxiliary control center of the Constellation...one of the Enterprise engineers reports that the antimatter fuel in the warp engines has been "deactivated." Kirk asks Scott something like, "Could some kind of general energy-dampening field do that?" Scotty replies, "Aye, sir, it all adds up," or words to that effect.

Three brief lines in the script. Later iterations of Trek would have strung that out for nine, or twelve, or fifteen!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13962
Posted: 23 August 2017 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

TOS also tended to use everyday analogies to get across the plot-point-y-ness of the technobabble (which is something FUTURAMA lovingly poked fun at).
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 24 August 2017 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Issue 19 went off to IDW today. That's more than three years this book has been happening -- a lot longer than I imagined it would when I started. I doubted I had that many TOS tales to tell.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 24 August 2017 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

That engineering corridor "set" I'm building gets me thinking again about the available space in the secondary hull. If we accept that the Engine Room is down there, then there are two big chunks of real estate eaten up immediately, with that large chamber AND the hangar deck.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 24 August 2017 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Miles to go. . .

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 24 August 2017 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Some additional details and lighting. When we first saw the Jefferies Tube (in "Charlie X") it was not in its final location, and the lighting was somewhat different. For one thing, there was a grid shadow from the ceiling, which I kinda like. Since I a messing about a bit with this model, trying to create a more "logical" exterior for Engineering, I decided to include that effect.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 24 August 2017 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

A curious aspect of the Engine Room set (the real one) is that if we take that high, curved ceiling as being snug to the inside of the hull, the whole chamber would appear to be off the long axis. I'm going to assume that was "artistic license" and square things up when I set my corridor in place.

Unfortunately, tho, there is no way to get that long, curved corridor!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Ron Goad
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 March 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 40
Posted: 27 August 2017 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

The layout of the sets on the available stage obviously limited what they could do...

The curved ceiling always made me believe the engine room was in the engineering hull (duh!), I also would not be surprised for there to be two sections side-by-side sort of mirroring each other but, that was never shown on screen.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 27 August 2017 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

The curved ceiling always made me believe the engine room was in the engineering hull (duh!),

Yet the curved hallway made it obvious to me that the Engine Room was in the Primary Hull -- especially when the AMT model kit came out and there was a raised section inboard from the impulse engines. Seemed to be there to contain that high (not so high in the first season) curved ceiling.

This configuration seems to have fooled the oft' reference Franz Joseph, too.

Tho it should be noted the does not take advantage of that elevator hull section.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Ron Goad
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 March 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 40
Posted: 27 August 2017 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Soooo many people have tried to analyze the sets and compare them all to the model that it's become another subset of Trek fandom unto itself...
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 28 August 2017 at 4:49am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Yes. Fun, isn't it?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Ron Goad
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 March 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 40
Posted: 29 August 2017 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Certainly more fun than Harvey has been (I'm in Houston - fun, fun, fun!).
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 01 September 2017 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Tinkering with another redress of a "set" I've used twice before, once in STNV and once in THE HIGH WAYS.

No idea where it's going to end up, but over the past few days I have been redressing a number of sets, looking for inspiration.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Aleksandar Petrovic
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 January 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 120
Posted: 12 September 2017 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

My home collection as of yesterday afternoon (with the appropriate living room couch shot). I haven't had a chance to open Volume 5 yet, but hopefully that will happen this weekend. 

Then the long wait starts for Volume 6 - all the way to February.  
 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Tim O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Security


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9295
Posted: 13 September 2017 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 23 post reply



I didn't catch that Vol 5 of the collection had come out last week - that cover looks great!

Thanks for the heads-up, Aleksandar




Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Aleksandar Petrovic
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 January 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 120
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

I spotted this one on the IDW website this morning. The alternative event-only cover for No. 18 is simply spectacular :D Too bad I will be on the wrong coast, I would've come for sure.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108154
Posted: 14 September 2017 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Yeah, I'm sure some folk will find a way to get a Bad Byrne story out of the "limited edition" nature of the con cover.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 199 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login