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Topic: "Batman is insane" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 1  

Along with the emphasis on Superman as an alien, one of my pet peeves in comics is the (increasingly popular) notion that Batman is a psycho in a bat costume.

I just came across it again, this time from a Newsarama editor, who states:
"Yes, Batman is insane, and that's part of what makes his rivalry with The Joker so perfect. While Bats constantly tries to fight the crazy, Joker revels in it"
When I read Batman a young kid, not once did it occour to me that this man was insane, or in any way unstable. On the contrary - he was an admirable figure, holding his own against villains with special powers and fighting alongside the super-powered Justice League - relying on his wits, skills and nifty gadgets.

In addition, he genuinely cared for the city he was protecting, and the people in it. He took Dick Grayson (and later Jason Todd) under his wing. Jim Gordon was a friend, not just a useful ally.

And he was the world's greatest detective - something that seems all but lost now.

Driven? Of course. But insane? Not even by a long shot.

When and why did this change? Is it all Frank Miller's and TDKR's fault? Or have fans and fans-come-creators turned him into what they wanted him to be, rather than what he is?

When I read statements like the one quoted above, I also get the feeling that it speaks for the majority of current comics and Batman fans. And that just makes me sad.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 5:56am | IP Logged | 2  

One of the most damaging things that have come to infect superhero comics in the past few decades is psychobabble. Suddenly writers who have NO CLUE feel they can toss around terms that really should be thoroughly researched before being used.

"Insane" is one of these. Insane, as some of you doubtless know, is not a medical term. It is a legal one. And, like so many legal terms, it really doesn't have a whole lot to do with the real world. It's there solely for the benefit of guys in suits arguing with each other in a courtroom.

When I was just getting into comics, professionally, I heard a lot of "Batman would have to be INSANE to do the things he does!" To which my response would be "No, YOU'D have to be insane to do the things Batman does, but Batman is just FINE doing them, because he's BATMAN."

Into the fantasy realms of superheroes, we drag our real world perceptions. We ask questions that should not be asked and, perhaps even worse, we try to ANSWER them! So Batman isn't just a guy who does what he does because he happens to live in a "reality" where doing what he does is PERFECTLY NORMAL. He does what he does because he's INSANE. And the Joker isn't just crafty and wily and fiendishly clever, he's INSANE. And this is played as his ADVANTAGE! "Batman is constantly frustrated by the Joker, because the Joker is not RATIONAL. Batman cannot predict what the Joker will do next, because the JOKER cannot predict what the Joker will do next!"

Sure, because THAT'S "real".

And that's what's REALLY "insane". We drag this stuff in where it has no place, and then we use it all just as "unrealistically" as batarangs and whirlybats.

The Joker is not insane. Like Hamlet, he sometimes chooses to "put an antic disposition on" -- and, like Hamlet, sometimes people forget he's only PRETENDING to be crazy.

And Batman isn't even pretending. He's probably the sanest man in Gotham.

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Gundars Berzins
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 3  

Agreed.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 4  

To which my response would be "No, YOU'D have to be insane to do the things Batman does, but Batman is just FINE doing them, because he's BATMAN."
--

Thank you - that's probably a good summation of the problem right there. Creators projecting their own values on to the characters, rather than writing them as they were meant to.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 5  

I can't add much. It doesn't surprise me, though. Some creators seem incapable of being dispassionate when writing, they do, as Peter said, project their own values onto the characters.
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 6  

I've noticed a few times over the years that fans (and some writers too, apparently) have a problem distinguishing between a character's true nature and how the criminals and/or the public might perceive that character. The "Batman is insane" idea is part of this, along with the way its sometimes been assumed that the other members of the Justice League should be afraid of Batman. That's absurd. In the JLA, among his own "kind," is one place where Batman should be completely accepted.    

I though the portrayal of Batman and Superman's differences in style was demonstrated perfectly in JB's Man of Steel 3 story, but that was when they met for the first time. Showing Batman as intimidating or frightening to other veteran superheroes years after they've been fighting side by side is something that bothers me. CRIMINALS are a cowardly and superstitious lot, which is why Batman's act is effective against them. But superheroes are not.

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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 7  

And why would anyone who likes the character WANT Batman to be insane. Of all the great comics heroes, Batman is the one who we, the readers, could be if we had the intellect, discipline, courage, and will to do certain things (and the Wayne fortune to help), because being Batman doesn't require being born on Krypton or being bitten by a spider or being chosen to receive the super-soldier serum. With the right set of POSITIVE personality traits and athletic skills, anyone could have been Batman. Why would we want to add insanity to the list of ingredients?   
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 8  

And why would anyone who likes the character WANT Batman to be insane.

••

There are White people who think it would be Way Cool to be Black. Of course, when they say this, they are really just skimming the surface. They think "Black people are COOL!" and look at styles and music and attitudes -- and sort of zip right past centuries of oppression, and the fact that even today just being Black can get you beaten and even killed. That there are many places in the "civilized" world -- and our o-so-civilized Nation -- where being Black is a constant struggle.

"Insanity" is the same. How COOL would be be to have that kind of mania at your command (skip the part about not being able to turn it off)? How COOL would it be to be able to rant and rage and have no responsibilities?

Well, 24/7, not very!

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Tim Cousar
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 9  

There are also places where just being white can get you beaten and killed.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 10  

There are also places where just being white can get you beaten and killed.

••

Really? THAT'S all you took from what I wrote?

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Erin Anna Leach
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 11  

I don't agree with the notion that Batman/ Bruce Wayne is insane. Honestly there is no way he could be insane, and do the things he does. I look at Batman as a man who has trained himself to be like a Special Forces Operator, that's the Navy Seals and Army Green Berets for those that don't know. Batman just has even cooler toys than they do. Batman has many is his rogues gallery that could be classified as terrorist because of the acts they have done. One might say that Gotham's CTU is the Bat-Family of characters. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 12  

I have often said the best definition of Batman is to be found in an opening scene in THE PRESIDENT'S ANALYST.

Godfrey Cambridge, as a secret service agent assigned to undergo therapy as part of checking out James Coburn's Park Avenue shrink, before the latter is confirmed for the title job, tells of a trauma that occurred when he was attending school for the first time. In the process he reveals that he has just killed a double agent, out on the streets of New York, and that when he stabbed that man to death, the victim was everyone who had ever caused Cambridge's character any grief.

Coburn's character immediately realizes THIS is why Cambridge's character is so well-adjusted. He doesn't really need therapy, because he can vent all his anger and frustration by going out and actually KILLING somebody. And his doing so is fully sanctified by the authorities.

Batman doesn't KILL people, but he does satisfy his graveside oath to his parents every night, in a variety of ways. No reason, then, for him to feel "driven" or to be "crazy". And, as Frank Miller indicated (and so many people completely missed!) he was driven crazy when he retired, and thus violated that oath.

A Batman who is out On The Job is a completely SANE Batman!

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