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Topic: The Sliding Time Scale (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 1  

By the time I joined Marvel full time, in the Seventies, one question had become a point of obsession for anal-retentive fans -- just how old was the Marvel Universe? Not all of it. No need to fret about those Golden Age characters, since they were tied to WW2, most of 'em, and we knew how long ago that was. But how long had it been since Reed and Sue and Ben and Johnny had gone up in that rocket?

Seem like there could be no concensus. Ask five fans, get seven opinions. But the question kept being asked. And one day someone said, being totally arbitrary, "Seven years! It has been seven years, and it will always be seven years.". The question that should not even have been ask had an answer.

Except the people who has asked it were anal-retentives, remember? So, like gun-nuts quoting the Second Amendment, it wasn't too long before important parts of that arbitrary decision started being ignored. And since it was, itself, just an opinion and not a hard and fast rule, there were some people positively eager to mess with it.

So the question became "If it was seven years THEN, how long is it NOW?" So it became ten years. And thirteen. And god wot.

One idiot even declared "Okay, it's been seven years, but no way are these stories happening in 1967!"

The REAL answer, then... the ONLY answer... the SANE answer is... DON'T ASK!!

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | 2  

I think part of the problem is that writers keep insisting on aging the
characters. Franklin Richards has remained an 8-10 year old, while the
members of the Power Pack have aged to high school/college age.
Meanwhile, Valeria Richards has gone from newborn to super
intelligent toddler to superintelligent 5-6 year old in less than a decade.
On the DC side, they keep wanting to age the Robins. Until they get too
old, after which they bring in a new Robin. Now with the new 52, they
want to have their cake and eat it too by having Batman be publicly
active for only 5 years, but still have his entire history intact, meaning
he went through four Robins in that time. If the characters didn't age,
you'd have fewer people wondering how much time has passed.
Unfortunately, this won't stop the people who need multiple universes
to explain all the contemporaneous appearances of U.S. Presidents or
how the characters have celebrated so many Christmases in 10 years.
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Glen Keith
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | 3  

Well, anal-retentive fan boys always want to ruin everyone else's fun. There's always some obsessive nut whose trying to read into the clues to figure out just what year Frankenstein or Dracula took place (a recent annotated version was presented from the point of view that Dracula was non-fiction!), or what century TOS Star Trek took place in. I wouldn't be surprised if some nut somewhere is analyzing the constellations* in the Star Wars movies to try and figure out just how long ago, and just how far, far away.


*Speaking of constellations, although I wouldn't call him a nut, Neil DeGrasse Tyson apparently complained to James Cameron that the constellations shown in Titanic were incorect, leading to them being changed for the recent 3D re-release. Now THAT'S anal-retentive!
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 4  

(a recent annotated version was presented from the point of view that Dracula was non-fiction!),

***

Dracula is one of my favorite novels. I received that annotated edition as  a present. While it was full of interesting information, the "non-fiction" point of view made it very hard to get through. I found it annoying.



Edited by Aaron Smith on 30 May 2012 at 8:22pm
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 5  

As a kid, I never needed the sliding time scale explained to me and I still can't understand why some people just refuse to get it. As soon as I realized that many of my favorite characters had been around for decades (the first clue was the issue numbers, which weren't reset every couple years like they are now!), I immediately understood that Batman, for example, didn't age because that would mean they wouldn't be publishing his comics anymore. And later, when I started finding back issues and reprints, it didn't bother me at all that Batman was obviously alive in the 50s in one story and the 80s in another story. Some people just absolutely have to overcomplicate things. It's as if they WANT to find excuses to suck all the fun out of the experience of just reading the stories.
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Mike Benson
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 6  

Funny that the only people who find the need to ask these questions are the ones who keep digging the damn hole even deeper.  When explanations make things more confusing, it defeats the purpose, doesn't it?  And lesson learning?  Forget about that concept altogether.  Need a crisis to fix the last two crises?  Then you might want to stop having so many crises. 

Serial fiction.  Timeless.  They really aren't that complicated.  And there's a ton of great work out there that can show you how it's done. 



Edited by Mike Benson on 31 May 2012 at 4:56am
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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 7  

I am glad to have never been concerned with timelines and more 
concerned with story lines and art.   

I didn't care 'when' the story took place so much as 'where' (drug 
store, convenience store, grocery store?) I was going to find it!  
Needless to say, this led to much bicycling around my neighbourhood!  
Zip zip!


Edited by Marcel Chenier on 30 May 2012 at 8:39pm
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 8  

For many, comics simply aren't "credible" if some of the basic conceits and tropes aren't carefully delinated and accounted for before the story begins. The "reality level" of the stories is the first hurdle casual readers stumble upon with the super-hero genre, and most never even try to clear it. I knew someone to whom Batman meant the world back in her younger days. She loved reading and identified heavily with the character. Yet even then through to the time when I knew her, she would have nothing to do with the Justice League or anything concerning Batman's friendship with Superman. Superman, you see, was ridiculous. Just nuts. And my ongoing fascination with parallel worlds and multiple incarnations of characters was viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism. Multiple Batmen? Ye-ah... She wasn't really interested. A daughter? Well, that was intriguing, but not really her thing. Batman wasn't old. He just wasn't.

Just Batman as a crimefighter, battling his rogues gallery, street level criminals, and the occasional jaunt across the globe suited her just fine. Don't mention the Outsiders or Metamorpho or, heaven forfend, the Super-Sons. She accepted that books with this stuff were out there, but none of them had anything to do with Batman.

Me, I love the minutae. I love all the various incarnations, contradictions, and patch jobs that had been ladled in over the years. "Crisis" nearly ended my association with comics altogether, as it vowed to do away with patch jobs altogether, while itself was nothing more than a gigantic patch, one more arbitrary and shoddily constructed than anything conceived to that point. At least the patch jobs I grew up reading had some basis in the actual publishing history of the characters. Crisis, on the other hand, was just the current crop's ham-fisted attempt to bash everything into a coherent shape regardless of when characters debuted or what their previous relationships to one another were. The pre-Crisis DC line had flaws. Post-Crisis, the reimagined DC Univese had nothing but flaws. Not one thing connected with anything else. And so they continually fixed it. And fixed it. And fixed it. And fixed it some more...

I really came to envy my friend's take on the comic reading experience. She could still enjoy Batman, as long as she took him in his own book. The new Robin was cool. This would have been Jason Todd. She had some trouble with the "reboot" that rewrote him from being a circus acrobat to a hubcap thief, but overall went with it with a sigh. Tim Drake was good too. As I recall, she was all about his personal life, his relationship with his father, and all of that soap opera stuff.

Comics ultimately are what you make of them.

You can count birthdays and Christmases if you feel you must. If you feel you have to keep a list of stories that "now cannot possibly have happened" and come up with ways to "rewrite" them back into continuity, well, fine, but at this point I have to hope the Big Two aren't hiring the day you show up for your interview...

 

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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 30 May 2012 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | 9  

How long has it been since Homer Simpson and Bart brought Santa's Little Helper home from the dog-track?
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 31 May 2012 at 3:30am | IP Logged | 10  

For many, comics simply aren't "credible" if some of the basic conceits and tropes aren't carefully delinated and accounted for before the story begins.

••

One of the worst examples of this came from a fan at a MidOhioCon, lo these many years ago, who asked me what kind of spider it was that bit Peter Parker. I had the unnerving feeling he wanted to repeat the experiment!

I don't think he was at all satisfied when I told him it didn't matter, since all North American spiders are venomous to some degree.

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Chris Geary
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Posted: 31 May 2012 at 4:18am | IP Logged | 11  

Should've just said, 'A Radioactive one.'...
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Neil Brauer
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Posted: 31 May 2012 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 12  

I had the unnerving feeling he wanted to repeat the experiment!

......................

HA!  That is funny!

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