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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 1
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I have to admit that I don't fully understand how someone could find "Oriental" offensive. I've always perceived it as denoting a geographical region and culture, sort of like American or European though a little more focused.
I fully understand why mongoloid would be, though, given how closely those descriptions are tied to physical features. The old scientific classifications seem to be disdained by everyone that's not a scientist.
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Lars Johansson
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Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 2
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Though in looking at Hungarians I dont see a lot of "Mongoloid" physical traits. No one is going to mistake Zsa Zsa Gabor for Yoko Ono.
But if you get there you will find both Zsa Zsa Gabors and Yoko Onos.
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Mike Norris
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 3
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Well if you have pics of Hungarians who look like Yoko, I'd be interested in seeing them.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 4
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I have to admit that I don't fully understand how someone could find "Oriental" offensive.
****
I think it's largely due to being an archaic and old-fashioned term (like "negro" or "colored") that was once used with negative, if not overtly racist, connotations.
Personally I think people get far too hung up on words rather than the intentions behind them.
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Matt Hawes
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 5
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A comparison of Ditko's Doctor Strange's features
...
Before Doctor Strange's origin in "Strange Tales" #115:
Starting with "Strange Tales" #115 (where we learn that Doctor Strange is Stephen Strange, a physician from America), his features change notably...
And for an added comparison, see how the Ancient One shares similar features with the earlier version of Doctor Strange, suggesting that neither is caucasian (or white, or whatever you guys finally settle on)...
I feel that Ditko did not intend for Doctor Strange to be white, initially, but he either changed his mind, or Stan Lee made the change, or both.
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Matt Hawes
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 6
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Thom wrote:
| ...Personally I think people get far too hung up on words rather than the intentions behind them... |
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AMEN!! This entire thread is being derailed on semantics and PC-minded talk, when the subject really was just about the difference in features between the early Doctor Strange and the later Doctor Strange by the same artist, Steve Ditko. Instead, most of it has been about history lessons on Eastern cultures and what correct term is appropriate to describe which race, and so on.
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Michael Todd
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Joined: 07 September 2009
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 7
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I think that you are probably right Matt.
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 8
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Dr. Strange reminds me of Salvadore Dali in those pages.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Joined: 22 September 2006
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 9
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"Though in looking at Hungarians I dont see a lot of "Mongoloid" physical traits. No one is going to mistake Zsa Zsa Gabor for Yoko Ono. " More to the point: Doesn't Zsa Zsa Gabor have a fairly round face with a small flat chin, a small nose, prominent cheekbones and slightly narrowing, wide set eyes? It's not primarily about skin color, but the frequency at which certain types of facial features are found in the different populations.
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Mike Norris
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 10
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Lets not sell the power of words too short. They've been used to inspire and incite throughout history. Meaning shift and change. Sometime a meaning can be different according to personal history, geographic location or culture. But on topic, the early Strange looks like a Caucasian made up to look "Asian". ( as seen in films featuring characters like Charlie Chan and Fu Manchu up to the 1970s) I dont know how Stan and Steve worked ( Marvel method I guess) but I would assume that Steve had a lot of control over visuals. So unless Stan asked him to change Strange's look to something more Caucasian I think Steve mad the change. Though Stan's plot/story could have influenced it,
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Mike Norris
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| More to the point: Doesn't Zsa Zsa Gabor have a fairly round face with a small flat chin, a small nose, prominent cheekbones and slightly narrowing, wide set eyes? It's not primarily about skin color, but the frequency at which certain types of facial features are found in the different populations. |
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So does my sister and I'm pretty sure we have no Mongoloid ancestry.
Edited by Mike Norris on 24 June 2011 at 11:44am
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Sergio Calvet
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Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Spain
Posts: 183
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| Posted: 24 June 2011 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 12
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I interpreted that original look more as "somehow demonic".
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Topic Closed)
