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Topic: Here’s why Marvel won’t listen to us (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 1  

Marvel needs to clear house, and get people in who are interested in producing quality comics every 30 days.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 2  

Y'know, I am getting fairly irritated by the huge amount of ego I see being represented here on this board.  It's truly mind-numbing how large it is. 

 

Yes, Breevort, I'm talking about you.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 3  

I sense that these NuMarvel a-holes' worst nightmare would be actual comic
pros working at Marvel, and trying JB's suggestions... and finding out they
worked!

That would be like utter defeat, discrediting everything they ever
"accomplished". Not least of which, because old pros like Byrne and Miller
have been decrying their stupidity every step of the way.

It seems obvious to say as I type it, but I never realized before how
diametrically opposed the current regime is with the professionalism that
created their company.

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 4  

 Brian Joseph Mayer wrote:
In fairness, as someone who frequently hires contractors, if someonehad been very public for the better part of a decade that they did notlike the way my organization did business and would not want to workfor my organization, one blink of a side note would not really make methink they had really changed their mind. I am not likely to chasesomeone down who is clearly against how we do things when I have a lineof individuals who do want to work with us.


This is an apples and oranges comparison.  I don't know what business you are in, but I would guess that whatever it is, there are a large number of contractors available who can do the exact same job with the exact same level of quality.  Thus, you are able to view contractors as interchangeable. 

Drawing and writing comics is a specialized skill, and each person who does it has unique abilities.  If you don't hire John Byrne for example, you can't just go and hire a guy who can do the exact same job as Byrne.  You may find someone who is better than Byrne at some things and worse at others, but not exactly the same.  And if you really want a book with the specific, unique talents and approach Byrne brings, you would probably be willing to set aside personality considerations to get it.


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Ian M. Palmer
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 5  

To be fair, Frank Miller wrote Captain America beautifully in Daredevil.

It's very clear from the quotations that Marvel's given up on trying to reach a wider audience. It may be that both the Bigs believe comics have lost to other media, and have surrendered in a way that radio and cinema, and books, never surrendered to TV. Thus, they don't even try to emulate successful periodicals: as magazines retain shelf space partly by promoting their own contents in capitals all over their covers, comics retreat into backstreet shops, expunge text from their covers, and whine that there's no point in trying any more. Meanwhile, many of us witness our children devouring Essentials and Showcases...

Sooner or later, someone will launch a line of family-friendly superhero comics into newsstands, and tap into that huge market. Apparently, it won't be Marvel or DC.

IMP.

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Brian Joseph Mayer
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 6  

"Thanks for accidentally underscoring another flaw in this whole process: that it had become about PERSONALITIES.

Comics used to be about hiring the best people to do the job. That was an editor's only interest. And when someone expressed an interest in doing a job, an editor would immediately make appropriate enquiries, not worry about whether the person involved was his buddy."

That wasn't my point though. Since the Hidden Years was cancelled, you have made it pretty clear that you wouldn't work for Marvel until there was a regime change. I have people I would love to use, but they have made the same thing clear. In my world, one of these talented folks posting something on their blog or facebook page or anything else hardly would count as expressing interest to me. I would need a phone call. I have to consider the work, not the rock star.

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Paul Greer
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 7  

Look at what John Byrne has done in the comics industry. It doesn't need listing. Even today after "leaving the industry", he still produces more comics per year than Ethan Van Sciver, Jim Lee and David Finch combined. However, this "huge ego" only has one message board on the internet that he participates in.

Has Brevoort ever written a comic book? Drawn one? Has he ever done anything creative in the comic book industry? Meaning did he take a blank piece of paper and make a comic book? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the answer is no.

However, Tom Brevoort has blogs, MySpace, Twitter, formspring and Facebook. All promoting Tom Brevoort's sense of worth in the comic industry. Why? Ego? Maybe. Attention whore? Could be. A way to overcompensate for his lack of actually creating comic books? That's where I'd place my bet.

I do have one quick fix to offer the heads of Marvel (and DC if you like). Stop wasting time on the internet and spend more time running your business like a business.

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Brian Joseph Mayer
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 8  

" I don't know what business you are in, but I would guess that whatever it is, there are a large number of contractors available who can do the exact same job with the exact same level of quality."

You have guessed wrong and the entirety of your point is meaningless.

But, since you decided to make an assumption without asking, let me fill you in. I have to hire people with unique abilities, skills, and knowledge. If I don't hire a particular person, I can't expect someone else to step in and do the exact same job as that particular person. I will find someone in some cases that may be better, and some in others that are worse. But never will I find exactly the same.

Regardless, if someone has been clear that they don't want to work with my organization, I am not going to bother trying to get them, I am going to try and find someone more suited.

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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 9  

Has Brevoort ever written a comic book?

*******************************

Yes, he has.   Actually CO-written with someone by the name of Mike Kanterovich.  (who?)  75 issues of various titles since 1994.

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Paul Greer
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 10  

Kevin, I've been Googling like crazy. Fantastic Force and Secret Defenders have been under the co-writing helm of Tom Brevoort. I stand corrected. How could I have ever doubted the man's talent? He's like Matt Damon. Being torn away with other career opportunites, they both never followed up the greatness of their original writing success.  Unlike Damon who became an A-Level movie star. Brevoort gets to kiss ass to the B-Level Hollywood types and comic superstars to keep his job. Lashing out on the internet only at those who can't harm his standing in the Marvel hierarchy.

Who could forget those great Brevoort moments saying that Thor should be late because it doesn't sell without JMS? Now Thor has multiple series/mini-series/one-shots. None of which JMS is involved in.

How about the time Brevoort defended Spider-Man getting organic web shooters in the comics? Since more people watched the movie it was okay. He also couldn't remember when the last time Spidey ran out of his mechanical web fluid being a big deal in the comics. Only to have that months issue of MK Spider-Man have Spidey run out of fluid and the result was Venom killing an innocent that Spidey failed to save.

 

 

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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 11  

A few years ago, I came across a discussion on a board -- might have been this one, or a prior incarnation -- where the idea was being thrown around that DC Comics was only kept in operation as a concept-testing, character portfolio management company.

The idea being that Time-Warner could make a killing from the occasional superhero material-based film and could easily afford to carry DC at a loss as a sort of Marketing R&D facility.

Along comes Dark Knight which makes upward of a billion dollars -- for whatever reasons -- and probably cements this notion in the mind of the parent company.

Why would Marvel be any different? From the sound of his twit post Brevoort seems to have thrown in the towel, but what if he's simply realized that there is no particular professional incentive to make good comics? Taking a step back, why would anyone produce quality corporate product if the rewards are more or less the same regardless of "quality". So long as the characters' stories get published and Disney can turn out a billion dollar movie every 5 years ... Marvel has "done its job".

And bear in mind that one definition of quality which is used in the Information technology industry is matching the stated expectations of your clients. If Marvel's target clients want Ultimate Zombie T&A and their clients get Ultimate Zombie T&A then, as far as the clients are concerned, Marvel is producing quality.

Forget comics. Think about the financial morons that fueled the current economic crisis. How many of these people got their multi-million dollar bonuses? As far as they're concerned, they made crap decisions and got rewarded handsomely for it; why would they try and make good decisions? For the sake of variety?

Gittattahere.

The same thing happens in education where the bar is lowered so as to guarantee "success for all". In educational bureaucracy, being excellent has been equaled with being a weirdo.

Folks, the issue of "degenerating quality" exists in vastly broader circles than comic book publishing. It is a mere a microscosm therein.


Edited by Jesus Garcia on 01 November 2010 at 4:02pm
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Robert White
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Posted: 01 November 2010 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 12  

That's pretty much how I see it, Jesus. I think it's hard
from some that only care about the comics to understand how
much bigger the games, animated movies, toy's, etc, are to
the companies that own these characters.
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