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James Revilla
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 1  

Long time since I read it, but I don't recall any cussing in DKR

You're right, but I was thinking more if Dark Knight was made today, it would have cussing..
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Jani Evinen
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 2  

Big fan DKR and Year One. My favorite Batman books well...ever. Did not really care for DK2 and thought it wasn't needed. All-Star Batman have been quite insane, and the ridiculous delays have been truly amateurish,  From what they speak at that moebiusgraphics messageboard, Miller wanted the curse words to be lettered in and then blocked out. Anyway, a book that is this delayed...doesn't surprise me that it has mistakes like this in it.

http://www.moebiusgraphics.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2& t=1675&sid=3dec0b851aba43a00d1551b21c84196c
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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | 3  

Los Angeles Times article about notifying Frank Miller of the hubbub:


Los Angeles Times' Geoff Boucher LINK


It also clears up the number of issues chambered for the series and the
reason for printing the words on the page in the first place. Link and learn!



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Dan Burke
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 4  

Miller has achieved the status that many artist envy.

When his work is good, he gets deserved accolades.

When his work is sub-par, fans say it must have been intentional!  It must have been satire or parody.

He can do no wrong!

(although it is worth pointing out that satire or parody (or even humor) doesn't imply writing that is of a llower quality... why do some fans think it does?)

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Brian Talley
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 5  

Thanks for the link, Tim.

I can see Miller grinning like a cheshire cat when giving his answers.

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Mike Murray
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 6  

"That's right," Miller said, "it's not aimed at kids, but this is a confusing time right now and nuances are missed. The rules are changing all the time, especially in comics and people are trying to sort it out. But this was absolutely not intentional."

Why does it have to be confusing?  Put an "Adults Only" warning on the cover (if they must insist on the insane practice of putting out a Batman comic book that's "not aimed at kids").

There's nothing to distinguish this book from Detective Comics, in terms of content, on the cover - and in fact, the title and the cover artwork (for this issue at least) make ASBAR look like it's more kid-friendly than the average DC book.

I totally agreed with Miller's rant against advisory labels in the past - when I thought he was talking about his SIN CITY book!  But this is Batman, the beloved children's character who has a new cartoon out this fall - that's a whole other ballgame.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 7  

Well, looks like Glenn was right about it going to #18.
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Mike Murray
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 8  

It really seems to me that the whole purpose of using the black bars must be so that they are just the right size, and have just enough of some letters sticking out from above and below them,  as to allow readers to be able to guess which word is being used.  So they're selling a book to kids and adults alike (by virtue of having no warning on the cover), and they fully intend for readers to "read" the offending words in their heads (and go out of their way to facilitate this with the "black bar" approach to censoring the profanity)... so I'm not sure why this comic book wouldn't be just as offensive without the slip-up, and how it has been allowed to continue for this long.

The people in charge of DC must be out of their minds...
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Dan Burke
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 9  

or just put a non offensive four letter word in the script to be blacked out later if all they really cared about was proper box size!

does miller really need to use "the hard c" to tell this story?

or as someone else said, did dc want the words there for a future, "uncensored" collection??

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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 10  

There was some cussing in 1986's DKR IIRC:

The SOBs (which meant Sons of the Batman -- coincidentally, natch).

I remember a minor, unsympathetic character calling another character a "Jap Bitch" (Jewish American Princess or short for Japanese?) before pushing her aside.

Batman himself didn't cuss and even reproved a child for asking him whether he was going to kick the Joker's a**.

That's just off the top of my head. I think there might even be a couple of "goddamns" here and there, as well.

Anyway, if there was ever a series to forever bury the Zip-Pow-Wowie!!! 60's version out of the public's mind it's AllStar Batman.

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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 11  

I like DK2.

I remember Miller lobbying, at the time, for his own pocket-DCU, or Earth-
Miller.

Here it is.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 12  

I find it funny that DC destroyed ASB&R #10 because of the cuss words not being properly blocked, but they didn't see the need to destroy the issue of DKR2 that had the word "s**t" in it (and it wasn't edited).

The editors at both DC and Marvel need to grow a pair and tell ALL of their creators, no matter how popular or critically acclaimed they are, that they cannot include any cussing,graphic violence,or strong sexual content/innuendos in the superhero comics that were originally created for and continued to be marketed towards (in other media and merchandise outside of the existing and shrinking current adult comic book readership) a wide all ages audience.
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William Byrd
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 13  

I picked up the a few issues (too many) of this series and then dropped it.  Did they ever have an explanation for how just a few hours after Batman kidnaps Dick Grayson that milk cartons in Metropolis already had him  pictured as a missing child?
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | 14  

My plan is in the end we find out where that robot tyrannosaurs in the Batcave comes from. We finally find out. That's plan. Unless of course I get fired now."

To me, the last quote of the article clearly illustrates how much FM doesn't get it.  We don't need to know where it came from and I'd bet my last button that FM isn't the right guy to tell it.
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Wes Wescovich
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Posted: 11 September 2008 at 11:57pm | IP Logged | 15  

Did anybody notice the Final Crisis book a few weeks ago that had "asshole" in it?  No black bar over the word or anything.  
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 12:25am | IP Logged | 16  

Don't look at me. I quit reading when:

1. Black Canary beat up a bunch of guys in a bar for being guys in a bar and then robbed them and it was like "real cool" that the did that to those scrotes. Giggle. PWND!11!

2. I realized that Robin seemed to have been bickering with the Goddamned Batman in the passenger seat of the dead cop chunk covered flyingbatsubmobile for.... days? Long enough to be on Superman's milk carton anyway. I bet it smelled real good in that car.



Edited by Emery Calame on 12 September 2008 at 12:40am
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Chris Hutton
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 12:43am | IP Logged | 17  

Wes, is that who wrote the issue?
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Wes Wescovich
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 18  

Good one, Chris.  I don't even remember what issue it was, honestly.  I've been helping out at the LCS and I have the opportunity to read just about everything that comes out now.  It's great for being able to answer questions about certain books, but it can be terribly depressing reading at times. 

We didn't receive the ASBAR #10, either.  Funny part was that due to the erratic schedule the book has, NO ONE missed it on the racks until this controversy arose.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 1:23am | IP Logged | 19  

Why does it have to be confusing? Put an "Adults Only" warning on the cover
(if they must insist on the insane practice of putting out a Batman comic
book that's "not aimed at kids").



Perhaps you don't recall that it was Frank who led the charge against this
idea when DC first lofted it something like 20 years ago. He called any sort
of labeling "censorship", which I maintained was preposterous. Labeling is
exactly the opposite of censorship.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 1:29am | IP Logged | 20  

"My plan is in the end we find out where that robot tyrannosaurs in the
Batcave comes from. We finally find out. That's plan. Unless of course I
get fired now."

To me, the last quote of the article clearly illustrates how much FM
doesn't get it. We don't need to know where it came from and I'd bet my
last button that FM isn't the right guy to tell it.



The robot dinosaur is from "Dinosaur Island", in BATMAN 35 (1946).



Which raises the question -- is this another example of Frank not doing his
homework (like making Alfred the old family retainer, or giving Catwoman
a new origin because he didn't know she already had one)?
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Brad Brickley
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 1:56am | IP Logged | 21  

Wow.  They actually credited Bill Finger. That's a cool page.
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Gerry Turnbull
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 2:48am | IP Logged | 22  

is the Finger credit in the original printing?

(edited to add,theres a pic of the original printing in Les Daniels Batman The Golden Age,theres no credit for Bill Finger)



Edited by Gerry Turnbull on 12 September 2008 at 2:58am
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 23  

DC is really going to take this thing to #18...?

Wow.
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Gerry Turnbull
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 6:11am | IP Logged | 24  

its DC's best selling title isnt it?
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 12 September 2008 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 25  

DC is really going to take this thing to #18...?

****************

Apparantly. Of course, my daughter will be in high school by the time it actually GETS to 18.

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