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John Enda McDonagh
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Joined: 17 May 2005
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 1
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I just noticed something; in Fantastic Four#278, it is established that Doctor Doom was actually largely disfigured when a monk in the Himalayas put a still hot newly forged metal mask on his face, and Doom then rushed out into the snow to cool the mask and his face down. This story was published in the 1980's.
Well, let us take a look at the origin of the Shrould published in the 1970's:
a monk in the Himalayas put a hot brand on his face and he ran out into the snow.
http://bp3.blogger.com/__p6Clhn9WDI/R84f49BIHOI/AAAAAAAACJk/ yz3_QHeSsjE/s1600-h/03-04-2008+08%3B14%3B47PM.JPG
http://random-happenstance.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-dcs-lawy ers-missed-this-i-have-no.html
Did that scene from the Shroud's origin inspire Byrne's revision of Doom's origin? If so, that is appropriate, as the Shroud was introduced in Super-Villain team-up as a foe of Doctor Doom.
Edited by John Enda McDonagh on 15 March 2008 at 8:57am
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Robert Cosgrove
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Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 8:34am | IP Logged | 2
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The monk putting the still-hot metal mask on Doom's face was established
in FF Annual #2, in 1964. Some disfiguration would seem to be implicit.
Whether making it explicit, plus adding the rush out into the snow was JB's
doing, or a later Lee-Kirby elaboration, I don't know. Maybe your title
heading should be the traditional "Question for JB"?
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John Enda McDonagh
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 3
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Ah, but Byrne definitly was the one who made it explicit that Doom's face was largely fine before the hot mask was put on. He also put in the scene of Doom rushing out to the snow to cool down the burning.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 4
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This is the first I have heard of the Shroud. My version of Doom's disfigurement was based on the office legend that Jack wanted him to have a tiny scar, while Stan wanted him to be hideously disfigured. If it is true that this is what Kirby wanted for Doom, it's clearly something he came up with later on, after the early adventures -- and particularly the origin -- were drawn, as there is really no way Doom could come away from having the scalding hot mask bolted on without it doing considerable damage. So, I decided to combine the versions -- small scar which plays to Doom's ego, and which becomes hideous disfigurement when the mask goes on.Further evidence that Kirby either came up with the small scar version later, or went along with Stan's version right from the start, lies in the significant panel from the origin, shown in FF 5, where Doom clearly no longer has much of a nose!
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John Enda McDonagh
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 5
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Okay, so the scene in both origins of the person getting scalded and running out into the snow to cool it down was just a coincidence?
Too bad, I was kind of hoping you might have stumbled across that scene during research (as noted, the Shroud was created as a foe of Doctor Doom in Super-Villain Team-Up), and added it in to sort of show that these two were set on parallel tracks.
Whether intentional or not, it does add a little bit of depth to their enimity, since both of them underwent circumstances.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 6
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I studiously avoided SUPER VILLAIN TEAM-UP. Even the title set my teeth on
edge. I was talked into doing a cover only because it offered what was,
then, a rare opportunity for me to draw Doctor Doom.
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Guests
Byrne Robotics Visitor
Joined: 01 October 2003
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 7
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JB -
What were you working on at Marvel when this issue came out? I know you did Marvel Team-Up (Spider-Man & Warlock in the 70's). I am most familiar with your work on FF (with and without Sinnott) and am having a hard time placing when you joined the ship and what you were doing when GSSVTU#1 was done.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 8
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I did the cover for SVTU 14, which had an October 1977 cover date, so I most likely drew it sometime in the summer of that year.* I remember that it was a rush job, and had to be turned around very fast, because the book was so late. That would put it in the early days of my work on UNCANNY X-MEN, my first issue of that series having a December '77 cover date.
*I drew it in the Office, so I was most likely in town for the July convention.
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Lars Sandmark
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 9
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Dan,co-incidence, I just bought that issue a couple months ago.
John Bucema art.
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Lars Sandmark
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 10
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JB says THIS was a rush job, sheesh.
I loved this cover when I was a kid.
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Wilson Mui
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 11
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That is an awesome cover.
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Guests
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| Posted: 15 March 2008 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 12
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That would put it in the early days of my work on UNCANNY X-MEN, my first issue of that series having a December '77 cover date.
Okay ! Good to know !
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