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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132263
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 1
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Comments in other threads got me thinking. Here's a short list -- not in any way intended as definitive -- of what I consider Warning Signs that maybe you should not be reading, writing or drawing superhero comics:A need to… • … "justify" the wearing of costumes (or) • … get rid of the costumes altogether • … make, or have the characters make, snarky remarks about the established idioms and conceits of the genre • … focus as much as possible on the civilian identies of the lead characters, sometimes to the complete exclusion of the "alter-ego" • … emphasize psychological problems (often sexual) as a dominant driving motivation for the superhero • … tarnish as much as possible the whole "heroic" mythos, the idea of doing "the right thing for the right reasons" • … project an image of being in all ways superior to the material
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13675
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 2
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Proof that I'm not embarrassed by superheroes:
Two years ago on Halloween I ordered a pizza to be delivered to my house while I passed out candy. The delivery guy called and was lost. I was trying to direct him through the turns in my neighborhood to get to my house. Anyway, there are a bunch of little streets and I'm not good with all their names so eventually I said, "I'll tell you what, you're almost here, I'm the guy in the Spider-Man suit standing on the corner."
I think he got a kick out of it.
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 3
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I couldn't agree more. I can't think of another entertainment genre quite as self-loathing as the comic book industry. It's like the folks creating these stories are saying, "We are ashamed to write/draw these stories and you should be ashamed to read them."
I think it all boils down to appreciating comics for what they are, rather than what you think they should be.
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13675
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 4
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I was sort of thinking about this topic this morning...how did we get to this point?
I figure a lot of the people working in the industry right now are probably about my age, late 20s/early 30s which means they must have discovered comics at about the same time I did. How did they become the people who have taken the industry to where it is today? Don't they remember what they liked about the comics from when they were kids? What am I missing?
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 7:18am | IP Logged | 5
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Good question, Joe. Here's my theory - and it's nothing more than that:
I think too many of the people working in comics weren't fans as kids. They got into comics because 1. They developed a reputation in some other field (movies/TV/novels) or 2. They see comics as a way to get into those fields. So they don't have the same respect for the genre that we long-time fans do. In fact, they see working in comics as "slumming.
That's not to say comics creators shouldn't be professional writers and artists first and foremost. However, I do believe that people who grew up reading and loving comics both understand the genre and want to protect it.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 6
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I think some creators and fans are applying too much of reality to the genre. The more they do this, the more uncomfortable they become with superheroes. They try and imagine a superhero in our reality and arrive at conclusions like "nobody would do this in real life" or "nobody talks like this" or whatever, instead of accepting the genre for what it is. Thus, all the aspects that made superhero comics fun for all these generations tend to get dumbed down, become subject to mockery or disappear altogether.
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Jeff Marvin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 January 2007 Posts: 276
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 7
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I agree, Paulo. That;s one of the reasons I like Astro City so much. There's no mockery - it's the "tnhis is the way of our world" outlook we saw from DC and Marvel in their heydays. I feel DC hasn't totally lost that view (see Busiek and Johns writing and you don't see any of the condescension so prevalen in other's work).
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14186
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 8
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I think a lot, not all, of the younger writers that are currently doing super-hero comics, grew up reading indy comics or stuff like Vertigo. They weren't influenced by a Kirby or a Byrne, but rather a Crumb or a Moore. Some, not all, would prefer writing those types of comics rather than super-heroes. However, since the market's top sellers are superhero titles, in order to make a career out of comics they work on superheroes and cram the indy style of writing into those stories.
Let me be clear. I'm not saying Vertigo or indy style stories are bad, they just are a different animal compared to super-heroes. Some writers understand the difference and balance the differnet genres well. Others show their contempt of making a living off of these titles by doing some of the tricks JB mentioned above.
I really wish the comic market was stronger. Then the indy guys could make a living off of the kinds of comics they prefer doing. Not what they have to do to make a living. Then those wanting to do superheroes (current writers or older out of work ones) would be allowed to do so without following the style of the indy guys.
Edited by Paul Greer on 11 July 2007 at 7:41am
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Thom Faxon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 March 2005 Posts: 284
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 9
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The sad fact is that if most comic book writers would get over trying to
justify a character being a super-hero and just accept what a super-hero is,
then they might could focus their creativity on telling better stories - or in
the case of some writers today - a story.
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David Barker Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 480
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 10
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I don't think I ever was really..there may have been a period in my youth of two years or so, but I realized I liked comics and fantasy more than being "kewl". People don't even bat an eyelash when I tell them what I do for fun now...in any environment or setting.
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13675
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 11
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I really like Paul's answer. Brian Bendis immediately comes to mind. I first discovered Bendis before he became a superstar writer on his early, independent stuff and I really enjoyed it. I was really excited to follow his career once he got hired on to mainstream projects at MARVEL. That's where it all fell apart. Like Paul suggested, it seems he tried to shoehorn superheroes into the kind of stories he really wants to tell instead of just doing those stories separately from the heroes.
Truly a shame. But for some reason people love it. I don't get it.
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Richard Stevens Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1927
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 12
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I'm so embarrassed by movies, it doesn't leave any of my embarrassment
supply for comic books.
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