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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 1  

From the READER'S viewpoint - we were never told this, were we?  Was this just "writer's intent" scribbled somewhere for the "creators" at Marvel?

Similary with Marvel Girl, Madrox, etc.?  How are WE the fan supposed to know what the true (initial) intent was in some cases?

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I thought that was the point of the original point.
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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 2  

It also goes to show that what we, the readers, think of as "Creator intent" often is the result of a broadly collaborative process involving not just writers and artists, but editors, publishers, senior management, even marketing and sales staff.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 3  

I don't think that Mr. Byrne's intentions for Magpie were for every writer to kill her whenever they took a book with Batman on it!
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James Hanson
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 4  

This industry seems to have a history of being unconcerned with author's intent-- from the constantly changing histories of Batman/Superman, to the reimagining of the Flash, Hawkman, GL that launched the silver age, to the reboots of the 80's, and now the current Civil War/Spider-Totem/Crisis #9876043.

Readers just seem to pick whichever version of a character they like best and act as if it's the "true" version of the character. Fans who screamed "foul!" over Byrne's Superman relaunch b/c it didn't match the silver age didn't seem too concerned that Superman had stopped being the political crusader strip that Siegal and Shuster drew in the late 30's.

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Ed Love
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 5  

When I think of author's intent, I think of it as keeping true to the spirit of
the character, a story you could pretty much see the creators writing if
they were creating the character today. Thus Man Of Steel and Year One
both work for me as in both cases the characters were updated but still in
the spirit of how they were intended (which is why I don't like THE DARK
KNIGHT RETURNS). Moore's Swamp Thing "Anatomy Lesson" was half and
half, it kept the character a horror character, darkening it and amping up
the horror aspects. But, on the other hand he changed the nature of the
character from a science fiction character to a supernatural one and the
basic man trapped in a monstrous body motif. I miss the old Swamp
Thing with more mudpacked body. It'd be nice to see a writer decide to
stop trying to emulate Moore and return the character back to his original
roots. But I look at the current Big Two, and I see little of MoS or Year One
in their approaches, but instead seem to go out of their way to trash
previous versions of namesakes or writing the characters as if the original
creators got them wrong. Instead of just simply telling stories starring
Aquaman or Captain Marvel, each writer sets out to "fix" them.
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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 6  

I think characters should remain true to type. It bugs me reading an introverted character turn extraverted for no real reason. Some characters should be more chatty than some and so on. That's the stuff I care about.
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Ray Brady
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 7  

I feel obliged to point out that Wolverine's claws were definitively stated to
be part of his gloves in an issue of the Mighty Marvel Fun Book. For my
money, this is the only reference material that counts as canon.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 8  

It struck me as odd that Batman, who was the "cool" character, seemed to have attracted fans who were far less anal (or far less informed) than Superman's fans.

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My theory behind that is that the Superman mythology had been fairly consistent since the Weisinger days. All of those elements were pretty much ingrained in people's heads (Jor-El with the headband and the sun on his shirt, the super-pets, and so on). Thus, when Man of Steel rebooted the character (and swept away many of those old barnacles), people were unaccustomed to the revised mythology.

**************

SER: These are good points. One thing I've noticed is that most of the creators at DC are apparently Silver Age junkies -- that's why we wind up with Kara Zor-El Supergirl and Kandor and the Fortress of Solitude and so on. I know there was some demand among fans for the restoration of the Barbara Gordon Batgirl but it paled to the demand for the Kara Zor-El Supergirl.

For many of these creators, Frank Miller provided the "backstory" Batman.

Tangentially, it's interesting to compare BATMAN BEGINS and SUPERMAN RETURNS. The former is heavily influenced by the Batman comics post-Miller (YEAR ONE, LONG HALLOWEEN, which itself was greatly influenced by Miller's work). SUPERMAN RETURNS, meanwhile, was mostly inspired by a thirty-year-old movie. It took very little from the post-Byrne SUPERMAN (JB's version of Clark Kent and Lex Luthor, for example).

SMALLVILLE, also, is very Silver Age in some ways.

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 9  

Author's intent is a useful thing but I think that there are instances where a creation evolves into something better under a different writer, artist or both. She-Hulk would be my prime example; the original character, in her "Savage" incarnation, was pretty limited. It was only when Roger Stern and then JB picked her up and did new things with Jennifer Walters that she became more than a Hulk knockoff.

Of course, there are many, many counter-examples, where creators ignore what is fundamental to a character...

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Brad Hague
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 10  

The sad thing with Superman now is which so many recons, reboots, movies, TV shows, Crises, different Earths, etc....  How much can one REALLY care about a definitive background for Kal-el?  You just have to take him as he is now and not think too much about his origin.
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Brad Hague
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 11  

To get back to the original thought of the thread... I wonder sometimes if Stan Lee even HAD an original intent for some of his characters other than to simply be interesting.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 29 March 2007 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 12  

Isn't there a reference to Wolverine being "different" from the other X-Men when they're captured in issue 98 or thereabouts? For a time there was talk of him being one of the High Evolutionary's New Men, wasn't there? Later, Archie Goodwin used a variation of the New Man in human form idea for his creation of Spider-Woman, which was then undercut and rewritten by Marv Wolfman to make her more palatable to the general audience.
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