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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 15 March 2007 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Gene said:

Kevin -

I believe that on Apocolypse in 9/8, Rutherford is playing mostly guitar throughout, kicking in the bass pedals when the big organ chords come in after the main solo (just before the breakdown).  I watched some 74 footage of Supper's Ready the other day, and seem to recall that ... although, he may have changed that up a bit by Genesis in Concert and Seconds Out

I could be totally wrong on both counts, though.

Then I said: In the studio there seems to be a bass line starting immediately after Gabriel sings "...did he not compromise it won't be easy" that I just adore.  It's not present on the 74 Montreal boot but it is on Seconds Out.  Now, in the studio they could have done overdubs (or on Seconds Out, for that matter) so I have no idea if it's a)overdubs, b) bass pedals, c) on the Montreal boot but lost due to poor sound quality, or d) Hackett doing something ungodly as usual.  Whatever it is, I love it - but I can barely tell a Hi-hat from a harmonica, and I think a Mellotron is what you get when you cast Bruce Boxlietner as The Dude.

 

Then GENE said (I'm too sleepy to html today nyah nyah): BTW, another great Rutherford bass track(and I hear the groans already) is No Reply At All.  Say what you want about the song, but it's possibly the last GREAT track by MR the bassist.

So then *I* said: And when you hear that sound live, they used a guitar for the horn parts, because a) they had no horns, and b) the song had no guitar(!)

For any non-Genesis fans peeking in: we love Mike.  We just wish we had more of him.

And some of us want Hackett back.

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 15 March 2007 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Small breakthrough: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jZ2Gpu1Z8Ug

He is indeed on guitar at the beginning and the pedals for the big organ chords.  I don't quite hear that studio/Seconds Out bass part but when Pete starts singing in the new costume he's DEFINITELY tapping it out.

Damn Pete looks like a god in this clip.  He sang that song like he was wrestling Galactus.

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 15 March 2007 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

More Mike goodness:

  • "I Know What I Like"  Just lovely.  Carried the song when they did it live, too.  The part that starts "Sunday night Mr. Farmer called" is a highlight.
  • "The Battle of Epping Forest" but then, I love every second of this song.  I believe he does a lot of rhythm guitar work here too.
  • "In The Cage" - that wonderful, insistent, dare-I-say paranoid bass thump
  • "The Chamber of 32 Doors"
  • "Squonk"  I could listen to a 45-minute version of Squonk and be hungry for more.
  • The bass solo in "Los Endos"
  • "Eleventh Earl of Mar"
  • Everything on Spot The Pigeon

Now we enter the Mike "Two-Job" Rutherford years, and I'll save that for later.



Edited by Kevin Hagerman on 15 March 2007 at 12:54pm
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Gene Best
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Posted: 15 March 2007 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Kevin made me applaud with:

For any non-Genesis fans peeking in: we love Mike.  We just wish we had more of him.

And some of us want Hackett back.

And then I said:  Indeed!  In fact, when other G-fans have asked me if I'm a fan of the "Gabriel Era" or the "Collins Era", I respond with, "Actually, I'm a fan of the Hackett Era."  (with respect to Ant!)

And then Kevin made me laugh out loud with: 

Now we enter the Mike "Two-Job" Rutherford years, and I'll save that for later.

 



Edited by Gene Best on 15 March 2007 at 4:26pm
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Brian Tait
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Posted: 15 March 2007 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

And then I said:  Indeed!  In fact, when other G-fans have asked me if I'm a fan of the "Gabriel Era" or the "Collins Era", I respond with, "Actually, I'm a fan of the Hackett Era."  (with respect to Ant!)
************************************************************ ************************************

Gene, I've always responded the same way.
Hackett era.

The loss of Hackett was (and is) the hardest musical obsticle to overcome.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 15 March 2007 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Externally.  Internally, it was like "Well, call the printers; we're going to need new stationary."

It was ANT leaving that almost broke the band, of course.  They were so green and he was such a big writing influence.  I can think of no crueler injustice than to be one of the writers of  "Musical Box" and to be too nervous to perform it onstage.  That sucks.

edited to add: Musically speaking.  Obviously, what happened to Marie Curie was a cruler injustice.  And when a Momma animal gets killed and her children starve, that sucks too.  I would say "That goes without saying", but this IS the internet...



Edited by Kevin Hagerman on 16 March 2007 at 1:53am
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Gene Best
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Posted: 16 March 2007 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Externally.  Internally, it was like "Well, call the printers; we're going to need new stationary."

Indeed.  I was watching VH-1 Behind the Music: Genesis the other day, and noticed how cool the boys were with carrying on as a three piece; basically they felt if they could survive Gabriel's departure, they could certainly continue after Hackett's.  They seemed pretty unfazed.

I can think of no crueler injustice than to be one of the writers of  "Musical Box" and to be too nervous to perform it onstage.  That sucks.

Indeed again - during the same special, they interviewed Ant; listening to him describing his stage fright was really sad.  Poor guy.

 

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Brian Tait
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Posted: 17 March 2007 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I had no idea Ant had anything to do with "Musical Box".  I do remember reading an interview with him where he discussed his stage fright, as I recall, for him it was a paralyzing fear.
I have his first few solo albums (on vinyl) and they still had a very "Genesis-y" sound to them.
Certainly would have been interesting to see what direction the band would have gone in had he stayed.

I've never had the luck to see that Behind the Music special. Sounds like it might have been interesting.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 18 March 2007 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

It was, Brian.  Sorry you missed it.

Yeah, "Musical Box" has its genesis (see what I did there?) between Trespass and Ant's departure.  Steve is largely playing Ant's parts, I'm told.  Some parts Tony plays were written on guitar and I was told Tony actually played them through a guitar amp to get the sound right (is that possible?  I'm so naive.)

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Brian Tait
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Posted: 19 March 2007 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Some parts Tony plays were written on guitar and I was told Tony actually played them through a guitar amp to get the sound right (is that possible?  I'm so naive.)
************************************************************ ***********************************
Do you mean live or on the album?
Tony does play 12 string on the album.
Not sure how they might have gotten around that on tour though. Depending on the keyboard he was playing, and how it was amplified back then he might have been able to do it.

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

If memory serves, they did a few live shows with a guitarist whose name is lost to history (Steve went to one of these shows) and they did a VERY few with NO guitarist.  This is where Tony began playing some guitar-ish chords on keys that made their way onto the final product.  As Gene said above, Steve's playing, god bless him, often sounds so keyboardy that if Tony tried to sound guitary it could drive a listener mad!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eEq8S-WjSdE

An excellent video of the boys live (the boot I have of this claims it is Belgian TV).  The keyboards after "and I touch... the wall" sound very guitarish to me.  But I may just be an inept listener.

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Brian Tait
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Posted: 22 March 2007 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Kevin, you got me curious so I dug out my copy of Armando Gallos' book "I Know What I Like" to refresh my mind on some stuff.

Both "Musical Box" and "Fountain of Salmacis" came from Ants days with the band.

Tony had to take over all the guitar parts on the electric piano. He played it through a fuzz box to make it sound like an electric guitar.

The unknown guitarist (at least one of them anyway) was Mick Barnard. He joined the band until they found Steve.

It's great book. If you haven't read it it's worth trying to find.
I have the edition published in 1980. Gallo was (is) the bands photographer and there are some great inside stories and pictures of the band.

The book ends with a tease of the "new" album. The band had entered the studio to record six songs and a twenty five minute piece of music which would form the new album to be released in March 1980.

That would be "Duke" and after that everything changed.
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