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John Popa
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Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Those are definitely some random match-ups!  Flair and Undertaker had history together, at least.  
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 18 May 2018 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yes, that's about the only one.

When I bought the tape (I was under no illusion), I thought, FALSE ADVERTISING. In what world is Typhoon VS Kamala a 'grudge match'? Or Marty Jannetty VS Papa Shango?

If I ever set up a wrestling forum (please come), I'd love to discuss the old Coliseum Video tapes.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 May 2018 at 4:45am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Random, but imagine if WWF and WCW had worked together each month and combined their main events.

So, in May 1995 (when monthly WWF PPVs began), the headline match at IN YOUR HOUSE was Diesel VS Psycho Sid. Over in WCW, the main event of SLAMBOREE was Hulk Hogan & Macho Man VS Vader & Ric Flair.

By combining the main events, a WWF/WCW supercard could have given us:

Diesel, Hulk Hogan & Macho Man VS Psycho Sid, Ric Flair & Vader

I was looking at other combinations, too. So by combining the October 1996 main events, we'd have had Undertaker & Randy Savage VS Hollywood Hogan & Mankind.

Ignore me, just an odd thought...
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John Popa
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Posted: 20 May 2018 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I watched the 1998 New Midnight Express vs. Rock and Roll Express from Unforgiven. Man, it was depressing. Obviously, the angle wasn't over but it was just sad seeing Cornette and the Rock and Roll do their trademark stuff to NO reaction whatsoever from an audience that had long since moved on.  Sad to see the classic bits go ignored but, yeah, part of it was seeing Cornette and the Rock and Roll not understand that that old comedy shit wasn't going to work in 1998, even if there had been a 'real' Midnight Express in the ring.  

Ah well, the dangers of nostalgia ... 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 3:54am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Well said, Mr Popa.

I wasn't a huge fan of that card. But, yes, it was sad to see. 

It makes me think about others: would Greg Valentine's plodding (not meant pejoratively!) ring style work today? I loved how he slowly and methodically worked over body parts. It painted a picture. Wrestling SHOULD be about logic, and it makes sense to work over body parts. If an opponent's arm is injured, why wouldn't someone work over it?

But if Valentine worked that exact style today, would it take off? I know that's different from your Rock and Roll Express example, of course.


Edited by Robbie Parry on 21 May 2018 at 3:55am
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John Popa
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Nah, Valentine wouldn't take off today. He probably wouldn't even get hired. Credibility doesn't matter to the majority of people watching wrestling today, they want to see high flying cooperative spots, not a slow burn physical confrontation building to one or two high spots and a finish (that rarely involved using one finishing maneuver in big matches.) 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Absolutely, John!

It made so much sense. Little things matter, e.g. a wrestler limping for a while and using that limp up until he wins or loses a match. Or Valentine injuring a knee or arm - but working on the arm.

I never understood why Arn Anderson worked a lot of holds on wrestlers' arms, but then finished with a...Spinebuster. But that's a separate topic. 

Less is more. One of my favourite matches is Jake Roberts VS Earthquake, taking place in the spring of 1991 (London, England). Fewer moves than any high-spot match - but, my God, such intensity. Such meaning, emotion and drama in a staredown or a wristlock. 

I'd rather see three meaningful moves, mixed in with a staredown or something, within the first five minutes of a match than 35-40 high spots within an entire 10-minute match.
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I was watching a match the other day (unfortunately can't remember if it was on Raw, Smackdown, Impact, New Japan, or Ring of Honor) where one wrestler was throwing punches and shaking his hand after each punch. It sold that those punches to the head hurt the hand and I haven't seen that in a long time (may have been Seth Rollins). There's nothing worse than having a guy get his knee worked during and then not sell it on the comeback. Especially, if he goes to the ropes during it.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

WOW -- WWE has reached A MASSIVE DEAL to air their SmackDown Live brand on the FOX network. The show will air on Fridays (possibly live).


I guess today's WWE product is better than I thought.

-C!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I'm surprised that, long-term, the plan isn't to convince everyone to sign up to the WWE Network so they can bypass TV stations entirely! 
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

There's nothing worse than having a guy get his knee worked during and then not sell it on the comeback. Especially, if he goes to the ropes during it.

+++++++++++++++++

I agree. Or when a wrestler does sell it, but stops completely after a couple of minutes. (See: Van Dam, Rob. He did just that a time or two vs. Ric Flair in WWE.)
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John Popa
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Posted: 21 May 2018 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I'm surprised that, long-term, the plan isn't to convince everyone to sign up to the WWE Network so they can bypass TV stations entirely! 

-----

As things stand now, though, TV is still a massive source of revenue.  Going to a major network will only amplify that.  It also benefits FOX as wrestling is still destination programming - not something people can binge or watch a few months later on Netflix.

Related to selling, there's a Brian Blair squash match on one of the old Mid South shows on the Network where he spends the entire match doing arm bars before winning with ... the figure four.

We have rose-colored glasses about some of that old school psychology.


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 3:22am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Oh, we do. Like I said, Arn Anderson, who I think is overrated, worked on the arm a lot. If I'd been running a promotion, I might have advised him to have a finishing move that damages an opponent's arm.

As we've discussed, little things mean something. Some trendy fans can mock the likes of the Warlord and Barbarian (I read such words in a fan-written book recently), but I saw those guys working on particular body parts, exploiting opportunities, and taking advantage.
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Double A overrated? Robbie, I love ya but I have to disagree. I agree about the Spinebuster if you're not working the body but my preferred Arn finisher is the DDT. When sold properly, that should put the opponent out regardless if you're working a body part. I always felt Arn could tell a good story in the ring but we all know that his promos were his strength.

Brian,
I always felt RVD (who I loved originally when I started watching ECW) was one of the worst when it came to selling. He's a guy who always made me feel like he was the "Let me get my sh#+ in" type.



Edited by Shawn Kane on 22 May 2018 at 8:48am
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

No problem, Shawn. Each to their own. ;-)

I actually agree about RVD, by the way.

It's about so much else, too. In the 1990 ROYAL RUMBLE, several people team up to eliminate Earthquake. As 'Quake leaves ringside, his face looks extremely angry. Suspension of disbelief was possible there. He looked like he had hate in his eyes.

And then there's promos. If two guys loathe each other, why would they stand face-to-face with microphones in their hands?
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Plus, commentary adds conviction. When Zeus was strangling Hulk Hogan (Survivor Series '89), Jesse Ventura, with 100% conviction, said, "Hogan could be the first eliminated!" You believed it because Ventura sold it that way.

Lord Alfred Hayes, Sean Mooney, Ventura, McMahon and others also implied a title change was imminent. Owen Hart was challenging Bret Hart (September 1994), and I think either McMahon or Todd Pettengil said something like, "It's entirely possible Owen will walk out of here as WWF Champion." They made you believe it was at least possible even if, deep down, you knew Bret would retain.


Edited by Robbie Parry on 22 May 2018 at 9:13am
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Oh I agree about commentary for sure. Jim Ross could sell a story like no other for me. Especially, in his NWA days when I started to realize that I liked their product better than the WWF. I liked both but the NWA felt like real competition. You don't realize how much commentary helps tell the story until you listen to a bad one. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Yes. I mean, Michael Cole overdid the "This one is over..." at times, always before a kick-out.

But there were many that did impress me. Likes of Hayes, Ventura, Pettengil, Mooney and McMahon were so matter-of-fact about a potential title win. Even if it was an undercard wrestler/team (e.g. Orient Express or Barbarian), something like "We could be seeing an upset and title change here..." did add something.

And a lot of NWA/WCW and vintage WWF commentary did deliver that for me. There was a 1992 European tour where Randy Savage defended his belt against Shawn Michaels. I remember Lord Alfred Hayes, with conviction, conveying the possibility that Savage, defending his knee throughout the bout, could end up losing the WWF Title to Michaels. All these things add credibility. 

I should really set up a private wrestling forum for us guys where we can have separate topics/sub-forums. Maybe via ProBoards. 


Edited by Robbie Parry on 22 May 2018 at 9:45am
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I'd be down for it.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 22 May 2018 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

There are rules about self-promotion on the forum, but if I could do it, I'd be happy to send a private message to someone. I do love this thread, but so many fascinating discussions, like this one, could have their own threads. 
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 23 May 2018 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

I'd have no problem on this site as a sub section or if you want to move it to a wrestling forum, just let me know what I need to do. Do we have a way to private message on this site?
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 23 May 2018 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I'll talk soon, Shawn. 

I can't receive private messages currently. The site does not allow Hotmail, AOL Mail or Googlemail as sign-ins (I signed up with an old e-mail address that is no longer valid). I've tried changing it - I only have Hotmail, AOL and Googlemail addresses - but to no avail. I can't think of any other providers, not sure if Yahoo is accepted.

So for the moment - because the private message system sends the message to your e-mail address - I can't receive such messages.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I don't get it. I just don't get it.

What am I on about? I'm on about wrestling magazines devoting a lot of pages to recapping events that we've all seen (surely wrestling fans, reading a wrestling magazine, will have seen most or all of those events?). I have never understood magazines doing extensive recaps. Surely a one-page results recap, with a few photos, would suffice?

WRESTLETALK is a bi-monthly UK magazine which covers global wrestling. Issue #4 was out recently. I was so disappointed.

It has good features, e.g. a Q&A page, DVD review, interviews, etc. But this issue had a LOT of recaps.

Pages 10-14 recap RAW, SMACKDOWN and IMPACT WRESTLING. Why do we need a recap page for programmes we have no doubt watched? If we're wrestling fans, we know them. For those fans who may not watch religiously, surely one page of results (who beat who) is enough?!!

Pages 24-26 featured recaps of ELIMINATION CHAMBER and FASTLANE.

Pages 28-34 reviewed WRESTLEMANIA.

Pages 38-40 reviewed NXT: TAKEOVER: NEW ORLEANS.

Am I selfish? Maybe. But that's a lot of column space for recaps.

I never liked them because, let's be honest, reading about moves isn't as exciting as watching them. Do we really want to read a blow-by-blow account of matches? I didn't (I skipped those pages) because reading about hot tags, clotheslines and so much else isn't appealing to me. It never has been.

Less is more. Years ago, WCW MAGAZINE had brief recaps, e.g. a photo of each match at a PPV, plus the result and finishing move. That was enough. 

I'd rather see analysis. In the current issue, several features were dropped (no DVD review this time). Well, considering they devoted 18 pages to reviewing shows, it's not enough.

It's the same with anything for me. If I read a review of a TV episode, do I want a review of EVERY scene? No, I want a quick recap of the premise/plot - and ending if in spoiler territory - with more space devoted to analysis.

Any views?
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John Popa
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Wrestling magazines still exist?

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 30 May 2018 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

PRO WRESTLING ILLUSTRATED is still going (which surprises me, well-written, but in a digital world, how is it going?).

In the UK, FIGHTING SPIRIT is going, which also covers MMA. And then there's the aforementioned WRESTLE TALK.
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