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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 12 March 2018 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Oh, I'm not a fan of Orton at all. Only cared about him when he was feuding with Kofi Kingston (remember Kofi destroying the race car?), and tagging with Edge as Rated-RKO.

First off, he has no personality, and he's a natural heel. He really stinks as a face, despite having a crowd popping finisher. His mic skills are worse than Roman Reigns'. (Reigns' problem is mainly who has been writing his promos.)

Secondly, his finisher. The RKO wants to be an Ace Crusher/Diamond Cutter when it grows up. DDP could literally hit the Diamond Cutter out of nowhere and even reverse moves into it. You almost always see the RKO coming, and most reversals into it that Orton has done (the Attitude Adjustment being the only exception that I can think of), DDP did first.

Third, I don't care for his style of wrestling at all. He has a really nice dropkick, but I hate the rope-hung DDT. Lets not forget that early on he was called Blandy Orton and Resthold Randy, for good reason. 

Fourth, he's part of the reason Mr. Kennedy got fired. Though I thought he was great in TNA as Mr. Anderson (using his real name), I wish he had stayed in the WWE.

Fifth, the Legend Killer gimmick was trash. What was so impressive about him defeating mostly retired, past their prime (a nice way of saying `has been') wrestlers?

If he wasn't a third-generation wrestler, he'd be a midcarder in the indies somewhere. 


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 13 March 2018 at 5:32am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Been watching some Legion of Doom matches on the WWE Network.

I had a thought about how wrestling changed with regards to past accomplishments of stars. When the LOD arrived in the WWF, circa 1990, it was during a period when McMahon (and WWF publications) never acknowledged previous accomplishments. As far as indoctrinated WWF fans were concerned (those who only watched WWF), this was a new team, a McMahon creation.

Although I criticize Vince Russo a lot, years later, when he edited RAW MAGAZINE, the articles his publication featured did acknowledge past accomplishments, e.g. WCW was acknowledged in the publication. I know he'd have done it with McMahon's approval - I presume McMahon had some influence over publications - but it made a difference.

If the mindset had been different then, McMahon could have brought in the LOD and pushed them as "former AWA and NWA tag team champions, here to win the WWF Tag Team titles". 

Just a thought.
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John Popa
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Posted: 13 March 2018 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The LOD were brought in better than most others of the era, though. They did a run in at a major PPV and were immediately programmed with the tag champs. Their gimmick wasn't fundamentally changed, either. While their history may not have been acknowledged, there was still a palpable feeling that the LOD coming in was a big deal because of who they were and what they'd done.

Putting them in the traditional WWF babyface position where one of them had to sell most of a match, though, didn't do them any favors.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 13 March 2018 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Very true, John.

And, yes, I see what you are saying. They were pushed to the top of the "food chain" rather quickly.

Their run felt so short (as a big fan of them). Arrived in summer of 1990, gone shortly after SummerSlam '92. Didn't even wrestle on the WM VIII card. 

I'd have loved to have seen them stick around after SummerSlam '92. The WWF tag team division was rather lax from 1993-95, featuring teams I didn't care that much about or singles wrestlers (e.g. Owen Hart and Jim Neidhart) thrown together to probably give the division some lustre. If LOD had stuck around until at least '94, I'd have been happy.

I did like how equal the tag team division could be back then. Not always, of course. But what I mean is, well, when LOD feuded with the Natural Disasters, you got the feeling either team could win. The Disasters were presented as a major threat to the LOD, but the LOD were presented as being the team that *could* topple the Disasters. Good fun.


Edited by Robbie Parry on 13 March 2018 at 7:14am
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 13 March 2018 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Next Hall of Fame inductee announced: 

Kid Rock.






FUUUUUCK THAT!


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 13 March 2018 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I've lost track of the HoF over time (too many names to remember).

Is Cyndi Lauper in there? I don't recall an induction.

If Kid Rock got there first, that's a load of shite! 
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 13 March 2018 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

No, Cyndi Lauper isn't in. Which is the biggest travesty as far as celebrities are concerned. If not for the whole Rock N Wrestling thing, the WWF might have ended up out of business.

(Either they've asked her in the past and she turned them down but they never revealed that to the public, or Vince McMahon is legitimately an ungreatful bastard.)

I can think of several celebrities who belong in more that Kid Rock. And she's at the top of the list.

A lot of fans think his performance at Wrestlemania 25 was the worst part of the show, and I'm inclined to agree.






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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 March 2018 at 4:42am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

When I saw imagery, via Twitter, of Kid Rock being announced as an inductee, I genuinely thought someone had created a silly meme (as they do on social media). When I learnt it was legitimate, I was shocked!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 March 2018 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Was thinking about Ultimate Warrior's title reign last night, which lasted from April 1990 to January 1991. As you know, he defeated Hulk Hogan for the belt at WM VI.

And then we got Warrior VS Rude II.

At the time, I found it underwhelming. We'd already seen Warrior and Rude feud from January 1989 to August 1989. After the Super Posedown at the Royal Rumble, Rude beat Warrior for the I-C Title at WM V, but Warrior regained the belt at SummerSlam.

Did we really need to see the feud all over again, even if the stakes were higher second time round? Their SummerSlam '90 cage match may have been decent (I'd actually describe it as mediocre), but it couldn't hold a candle to their 1989 bouts. And let's be honest, Hulk Hogan VS Earthquake overshadowed the Warrior/Rude bout.

I'm not blaming Warrior, by the way, but the WWF. Despite beating Hogan in 1990, Warrior's reign seemed to play "second fiddle" to Hogan/Earthquake (which, I confess, was more compelling). Yes, Warrior defended against the likes of Mr. Perfect, Ted DiBiase and Randy Savage, but Warrior-Rude II felt like a rehash, akin to one of those sequels that are inferior to the original.

I think WWF should have given Warrior a fresh opponent at SummerSlam '90, rather than the guy he beat a year previously. But who? DiBiase was feuding with the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Mr. Perfect was defending the I-C Title against various opponents, and whilst Savage crossed paths with Warrior, the Macho King seemed more focused on others. 

Warlord? Barbarian? They may have been able to build something there, e.g can the Warrior's might last against Warlord? Or Barbarian? I know both the Warlord and Barbarian had suffered pinfall losses, but they still had a lot of mystique back then. And prior to becoming jobbers (in a sense), Warlord and Barbarian, both in singles and tag bouts, had not been pinned that much; if they lost, it was usually DQ or count-out (at WM V, it was their partner, Mr. Fuji, who got pinned).

So, I don't know, maybe Warrior could have had a mini-feud with either of those.

I just don't think April 1990 to August 1990 served Warrior well. Not only was six years of Hulkamania a hard act to follow, did anyone really have an appetite for Warrior-Rude II? Perhaps the WWF could have served Warrior better, given those two factors.

Thoughts?
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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 14 March 2018 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Kid Rock gets a lot of shit, but IMO he's got more WWE credentials than at least one previous celeb inductee, Drew Carey.
Now, if we can get Taker coming out to 'American Bad Ass' out of it...
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 14 March 2018 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I just don't think April 1990 to August 1990 served Warrior well. Not only was six years of Hulkamania a hard act to follow, did anyone really have an appetite for Warrior-Rude II? Perhaps the WWF could have served Warrior better, given those two factors.

Thoughts?

**********

Warrior won the belt at the highest peak anyone not named Hogan could achieve in the WWF. Once he beat Hogan, clean, at Wrestlemania, where else is there to go?? Seriously, Vince went with Rude in order to play off of their past history and in-ring chemistry. 

Sadly, lightning didn't strike a third time -- Also, Hogan had some qualities that Warrior didn't have. Hogan was very good at making anybody he feuded with seem like a threat. Warrior was similar to Goldberg, who was billed a such a dominate monster, that when he did get hurt, he lost his luster.

Last thing i'd say hurt his title reign -- Warrior shared too much spotlight with Hogan...  Vince was still completely into Hulkamania and probably didn't want to abandon it yet to make Warrior's run the best it could be.

Turns out that Warrior's attitude backstage fueled Vince's worries and the rest is history!

-C!


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 March 2018 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Very true, Charles.

Hogan/Quake was clearly the "main event" of SummerSlam for some. to be honest, at the time, fellow fans I knew were more concerned with whether Hogan had survived 'Quake's sneak attack, very few seemed interested in Rude.

I'd often mention WWF to folk during that time - and Rude/Warrior II would be met with a comment such as, "Oh yeah...and now back to Hogan/Quake." 

If Warrior and McMahon had had a better relationship, and Warrior hadn't kept disappearing, I wonder if he'd have had one more reign. Of course, if that had happened, would we ever have seen Bret Hart's push? Maybe eventually, I suppose.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Just my view, but I think Kerry Von Erich should be in the WWE Hall of Fame.

Thoughts?
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John Popa
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I'd be more inclined to want a Von Erich family induction instead of just Kerry.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Good point, John. You've won me over. That hadn't occurred to me, but it would make more sense, given the family history/name/legacy.
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John Popa
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Kerry was definitely the rock star of the family and was more famous because of his looks but his career was also the one that was more of a letdown, because so many people thought he'd be an all-time great. He was really never that great a worker and his promos weren't very good so he struggled big time when he got out of his home turf. David was the better all around performer, but in a very late 70's sort of way. I don't think he would have been as accepted on the national stage. Kevin was the most athletic - I thought a tag team of Kevin and Kerry could have had a good or great run in the NWA, but there was no reason to leave Texas when they were gods among men there.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I'd agree with all of that.

I don't remember any memorable promos by Kerry.

In a way, a lack of promo abilities can be a major handicap. If someone has a good mouthpiece (e.g. a manager), it's salvageable, but it can be a handicap.

I quite liked Ahmed Johnson and often rooted for him in 1996. I was pleased that he teamed with Sycho Sid and Shawn Michaels at IYH IX. But he was a wrestler who I didn't feel did good promos.

Some improved over time. I feel the British Bulldog's 1995-97 promos were better than the ones he did in 1991-92. Others just didn't seem to have it.

And that's fine. It can be salvageable. I'm not sure Brock Lesnar's promos are the strongest, but his aura, and Paul Heyman's words, compensated for that.
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John Popa
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Brock's problem is he has a fairly soft and high voice compared to how tough he really is. Heyman has been a godsend for him.

Bret Hart's promos in '96 and '97 were miles better than what he'd done previously.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Absolutely!

With Davey Boy Smith, I remember a clumsy promo during the WWF's 1991 world tour. He said something about the 'world-continental championship' (I believe he was set to challenge I-C Champion Mr. Perfect at the time). He looked nervous in front of the camera.

Things changed, though.

Oh, and I often loved Mr. Perfect's promos! 
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John Popa
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

The Bulldogs are my best friend's favorite wrestlers so I used to bust his balls about Davey's awful promos all the time.

One of my favorite Jesse The Body moments was some show had a promo by the Bulldogs but Davey didn't say anything at all. When Gorilla cut back he mentioned that Davey didn't say anything and Jesse said 'well I don't think either of them are particularly well versed.'

Another win for The Body :)
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

:D 

Yeah, that 1991 promo was awful. 'World-continental' title indeed! But he just seemed not a natural camera performer at all. 

Maybe he could have benefited from a script (I assume 99% of wrestlers didn't do scripted promos back then).

Speaking of scripts, some have said that Randy Savage was obsessed with laying out a match. Someone said that it drove Ricky Steamboat crazy prior to WM III.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Ahmed Johnson, Robbie? He was a decent enough wrestler, but I'm still not convinced he was even speaking English when he cut promos.

Then after he left the WWF, WCW brought him in as Big T and did that ridiculously stupid feud with Booker T.


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Paul Greer
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

The Von Erich's were inducted into the Hall
of Fame in 2009. Fritz,David,Kevin,Kerry and
Chris. It was the induction of Chris that
made the Macho Man not accept induction
unless his dad and Lanny were included.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

 Brian Floyd wrote:
Then after he left the WWF, WCW brought him in as Big T and did that ridiculously stupid feud with Booker T.

Was that the feud over ownership of the letter T? That'd have been a perfect plot - in a MUPPET BABIES episode.

 Paul Greer wrote:
The Von Erich's were inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2009.

How on earth did I forget that? I can't keep up! ;-)
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 15 March 2018 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

The Women's Battle Royale is no longer going to be the Fabulous Moolah Memorial. Snickers, which is sponsoring Wrestlemania, told the WWE that the name was unacceptable.

Good move, in my opinion. If even half the stories about her are true, she was a slimeball.
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