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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 27 October 2017 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The one line Cole likes to use a lot regarding Kofi Kingston, a "controlled frenzy", has never made sense. If it's controlled, it's NOT a frenzy.

He does deserve to be inducted.


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 October 2017 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

My friend, oxymoron phrases like that irk me no end. ;-)

As does redundancy. I mean, what the hell is an 'unexpected surprise'?

I like Jerry Lawler very much, but if you look at his commentary in the 90s, in my view he tried hard with puns and playing the heel commentator; but in the last 10-15 years, there seemed to be a lot of talk about "puppies" and tired, uninspired stuff. Still a fan, though.

For all his flaws, I feel Cole has been consistent throughout.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 27 October 2017 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I hated Cole at first, but he's gotten a LOT better than he was when he first started out.

But he's still far behind JR, Tony Schiavone, Gorilla Monsoon and Gordon Solie (in no particular order) when it comes to announcers.


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 October 2017 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

As far as the WWF is concerned, it's McMahon/Venture, Ventura/Monsoon and Monsoon/Heenan for me. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 October 2017 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Hey, this YouTube video, via the official WWE page, is worth a watch:

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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 27 October 2017 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The "bar" in commentary has dropped so much since Jim Ross left that it doesn't surprise me that many think Cole's gotten better since e became the main play-by-play man. Honestly, the times I tune in, commentary is the last thing that registers to me.... it certainly doesn't help the shows like in the past.

Monsoon/Heenan, Vince/Jesse, and JR/Lawler were less scripted and more natural - letting their personalities shine through... which really isn't allowed anymore. I give props to Cole for doing as he's told, but he has little passion for what he does.

-C!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 27 October 2017 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Does anyone know why Piper became a colour commentator in 1990? He was on a bit of a roll with wrestling but after WM VI, he was in a colour commentator until around mid-1991. I missed his in-ring stuff, good though his commentary was. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 28 October 2017 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I listen to quite a few podcasts so can never remember a specific show, but I heard some thoughts from Ric Flair on Hulk Hogan and Rick Rude recently. Which are inaccurate.

He claims Hogan and Rude never wrestled, not even when both were in the WWF.

I guess I imagined the Hogan/Rude match I watched on the DVD HULK HOGAN'S UNRELEASED COLLECTOR'S SERIES. Nope, actually I didn't. I saw it. It happened. I also saw them wrestle (whilst on opposing teams) at SURVIVOR SERIES '87. And they had a brief scuffle during the 1990 ROYAL RUMBLE.

Flair also talked about how Hogan refused to work with Rick Rude in WCW.

If memory serves me right, Rude retired around summer (or spring) 1994. I don't know if he was still active around the time Hogan come in (June 1994), but Rude retired. There would have been no opportunity for Hogan and Rude to lock horns on WCW soil. Had Rude not retired, maybe he and Hogan would have wrestled in late 1994 or 1995. I seem to recall Rude retiring around May or June 1994, around the time Hogan come in.

Us wrestling fans have good memories of trivia and dates. So the "Hogan refused to work with Rude in WCW" and "Hogan never wrestled Rude" comments are not true.



Edited by Robbie Parry on 28 October 2017 at 5:48pm
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John Popa
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Posted: 29 October 2017 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Flair's probably the least reliable source I can imagine as it relates to wrestling history.  Even his own. 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 29 October 2017 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

What, you mean the time he mentioned having wrestled Ricky Steamboat 3,000 times?

It just irked me a tad, because I recall the Rude/Hogan bout on that DVD. And I do have a pretty good head for dates. I'm 99% certain that Rude retired from in-ring action either very close to or during Hulk Hogan's WCW debut. I'm sure it was around April/May 1994 that Rude wound down his wrestling career; and Hogan didn't actually wrestle until, what, July 1994?

I confess, had Rude carried on wrestling, there's a good chance he may not have worked with Hogan. I did read that Hogan was reluctant to work with Vader and had to be convinced. But wrestlers like Flair claiming Hogan/Rude never wrestled (when the evidence is in front of us all) and that Rude refused to work with Hogan (when the dates don't add up) makes no sense.

As for the WWF, the aforementioned Hogan/Rude encounter is the only singles encounter I know of. Did they wrestle at other times? I don't know, I don't really have the inclination to check out house show results right now. And even as a Hogan fan, I know there were times in his career where he didn't seem to want to wrestle people/put them over (I'd never whitewash that).

But it won't apply to every wrestler. Hogan was busy with Andre in 1987/88. And as a member of the Mega Powers. From 1989-1990, he was busy with Macho King, Zeus, Warrior. And then the Earthquake fed in 1990/91. Perhaps he never wrestled Rude on a regular basis because of the "stars never being aligned" and not due to some conspiracy.

If anyone (not Flair) has evidence or anecdotal accounts of Hogan refusing to work with Rude, or Rude refusing to work with Hogan, I would, of course, listen!
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 29 October 2017 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Rick Rude was in WWF for a little over 3 years before quitting the company in October 1990. During that time, Hogan made two movies (No Holds Barred & Suburban Commando) which cut into his wrestling schedule. 

Rumors I've heard regarding Hogan being  reluctant to a long-term feud with Rick Rude: (1) when Rude was available, he'd just come off losing feuds against guys considered beneath Hogan, (2) Rude was smaller than Hogan, (3) Rude had much better definition than Hogan, (4) Rude, a former bouncer, could have taken Hogan in a legit fight, (5) Hogan would rather use his limited dates working with friends like Randy Savage or John Tenta (Earthquake).

Ric Flair had a podcast awhile back where he addressed some of these issues and was probably mixing up his dates... but considering his career I can allow him to be mistaken every now and then. I'm sure he'd forgotten that ONE singles match.

No biggie.

Still, Hogan has been known to be picky about who he works with... and Rude is known for being one of the few legit tough guys in the business, which could've influenced Hogan decisions about who he'd work programs with.

-C!





Edited by Charles Valderrama on 29 October 2017 at 9:13pm
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 30 October 2017 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Some of that could be true at a particular time, but Hogan did face Rude at least once - and the dates in WCW don't mix up.

If Rude had not retired, and stayed with WCW, I don't believe Hogan would have wrestled him. Or Stunning Steve Austin. Hogan did seem fixated on his old WWF buddies at the time (Brutus, John Tenta, etc.) And wrestling Ric Flair. And a feud with Vader was inevitable. So even if Rude had remained with WCW, I doubt Hogan would have wrestled him. Or put him over.

But the opportunity was simply never there. A Google search reveals that Rude retired around May 1994. Hogan came in June 1994 and I think he first wrestled around July 1994. There'd have been no opportunity for overlap.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 30 October 2017 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Chances are, Rude didn't need Hogan to put him over. There were plenty of guys Rude could've worked with at the time if he were medically able to.

At the time of his death (1999), Rude was in training hard for a return to the ring. Had he been welcomed back to WWE, I think Austin would've worked with Rude at some point as they were at times traveling buddies and respected each other from their days in WCW together.

Sad, I really was a fan of Rude... especially during his WCW run.

-C!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 30 October 2017 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

There were rumours in 1994 (not sure how credible) that Rude was negotiating with WWF. 

If he had arrived in WWF, circa late 1994, imagine the bouts he could have had either challenging Razor Ramon for the I-C Title or as a challenger to Bret Hart's World Title!

I wish they'd do a Blu-ray release for Rude. He seemed to improve with age. I loved his early stuff (and WWF stuff, too), but I feel his best moments came from 1991-94 in WCW.
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John Popa
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Posted: 30 October 2017 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Rude had an unusually high guaranteed contract in WCW in the early 90's.  He was seen as a steal from Vince and WCW wanted badly to be able to say they did that so he was making a lot more than he was really worth.  It guaranteed him a top spot, even when he wasn't drawing and when his match quality was falling off.  He may have negotiated with Vince but, as was often the case, it was probably just to leverage his WCW deal.  Vince wouldn't have offered him anything near what WCW was giving him.  
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 30 October 2017 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

That's true.

If money had been possible, I'd have loved a Rude/Bret Hart feud.

Interesting how different the road could have been in wrestling (on many issues). What if Hogan had remained in the WWF, circa 1993/94? What if Rude had been Bret's opponent in 1994 rather than Owen Hart? What if Bret had stayed with the WWF after Survivor Series '97? 

So many possibilities that we can only dream of...
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 31 October 2017 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Had Hogan remained in the WWF, we might not have seen the rise of Bret Hart, HBK, Owen and the Attitude Era.... plus no NWO or Monday Night Wars. Things would've been kinda stale.

The competition between WCW and WWF was great for the industry and Hogan leaving was the start of that.

-C!
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 31 October 2017 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Absolutely!

I always ponder the road not travelled. How the smallest thing could have led the business down a different path - or even made WWF cease to be.

Even little "ripples" can have an effect.

I mean, imagine if Hogan had remained in '92. And Warrior had had a longer run from '92. What main events would we have seen as 1992 became 1993? Would Bret and Shawn have ever broken through that glass ceiling?

What it Steve Austin had remained with WCW? Would he have stayed in the mid-card slots? What would that have meant for ECW, WWF, etc? 

What if the Montreal Screwjob had not taken place. I'm sure Austin was ready to break through that glass ceiling (he'd have always made it, in my view), but without a Mr. McMahon as his opponent, how different would the path have been?
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 04 November 2017 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

I want to play a game!

1992 was one of my favourite years in wrestling. So, here's the game.

Using talent who wrestled for either WCW or WWF at the time, assemble a five-match card. At least one match must be a tag team match. You can feature either all WWF talent, all WCW talent or a mixture of both. Choose a commentary team, too.

My 1992 Dream Card (let's call it DREAM-MANIA):

Arn Anderson VS Ted DiBiase (20-Minute Iron Man Match)
Big Van Vader VS Rowdy Roddy Piper
Stunning Steve Austin VS Macho Man Randy Savage
Cactus Jack & Papa Shango VS Barbarian & Warlord

And in the main event:

Rick Rude, Shawn Michaels & Razor Ramon 
                            VS
Bret Hart, Ultimate Warrior & Undertaker
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 04 November 2017 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

So it has to be talent that was active for either company in 1992, not in each person's favorite year?

Tito Santana vs. Stunning Steve Austin

Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat, Flyin' Brian Pillman and Sting vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper, Shane Douglas and Nikita Koloff

Razor Ramon vs. Arn Anderson

Ted DiBiase and Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart and Randy Savage vs. Kensuke Sasaki and Barry Windham

"Doctor Death" Steve Williams vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - 2 out of 3 falls match

Main Event:

Undertaker vs. Big Van Vader 


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 05 November 2017 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

So it has to be talent that was active for either company in 1992, not in each person's favorite year?

***

Correct!

Undertaker VS Vader in 1992 would have been great. That said, I did have the pleasure of seeing them battle live (November 1996, Birmingham NEC Arena) in a heated encounter.

They had some matches in 1997 which were pretty good.

As the Undertaker was wrestling a slow, ponderous style back then, it'd have been interesting seeing his 1992 style matched against Vader. 
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 05 November 2017 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

It's a shame we never got Undertaker vs. Vader in a Hell In A Cell. Couldn't book that, since the first HAC match was in 1997.

And I intentionally left Hogan and Warrior off the card. Too easy to use them, and I couldn't think of a good opponent not already used in one of my matches that I'd really want to see Hogan go over.


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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 05 November 2017 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Years ago, the fanboy in me used to imagine what would happen if Vince McMahon and Ted Turner/Eric Bischoff could have give us joint supercards once every 2 years or so. 

Every year, there could have been non-title champion vs champion matches. Around Xmas. Which means in December 1996, we'd have had, erm, WWF Champion Sycho Sid VS WCW Champion Hulk Hogan. Yeah...better scrap that idea. 

Instead, late 1992 could have given us bouts like WWF Champion Randy Savage VS WCW Champion Big Van Vader. Or, in March 1993, WCW Champion Sting VS WWF Champion Bret Hart.

We could have had US VS I-C Title matches, the tag team champions facing each other, etc. Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton VS Money Inc., anyone? ;-)
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Does anyone in New York want to provide me with a spare bedroom for a while (and buy me an air ticket)?



Edited by Robbie Parry on 06 November 2017 at 1:39pm
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Sean Combs has apparently changed his stage name from Diddy to Brotther Love.

Sadly, I don't think anyone has told him he's way too late to manage the Undertaker.......
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