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Topic: Stories that should NEVER be told.. (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Ted Pugliese
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Joined: 05 December 2005
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 1  

I think it is possile to publish mainstream comics that agree 100% with the character, and I think there are formats available to explore these properties in other ways.  I do not believe in NOT publishing such stories, like some do, I just feel there are separate places for both.

Edited by Theodore Pugliese on 03 February 2007 at 6:59am
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 2  

Bucky can be cosmic-cubed outta there.  Gwen
Stacy's Goblin Babies can be a bad dream.  Bruce
Wayne's crazy older brother can just never be
mentioned again. 

*****

Or the stories could never be done in the first place.

Too crazy an idea?
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 3  

The beauty of a lot of these characters, and a big reason they've been in print so long, is that they're darn near indestructable.  Superman as a character is FAR bigger than whatever story's being told about him in this month's issue of Action.  I enjoy seeing creators take chances with him occasionally, even if they might fail - knowing as I do that the "real" Superman will endure.

***

That used to be the case, when the industry was broad based and healthy, and 100,000 sales each month was a cue for cancelation, not jubilation.

But the industry as it exists today is largely in the control of the anal-retentive fanboys who used to form only a small, fringe group. As we have relentlessly shrunk the market, these are the ones who have hung on -- to the point that many of them have even become "professionals". "Professionals" who don't understand that all the "great" ideas they had as fans should be left at the door, and that building a career on "fixing" previous stories, or pandering to their fan chums, or that launching every idea with "wouldn't it be cool if…" without thinking thru the long-term ramifications are not good ideas.

When we have a large part of the fan base composed of those who memorize every comma, who think computer graphing programs are an important part of fandom, who genuinely seem to believe that every single story should be written as part of a huge, unbreakable whole ---- then we can no longer say that the characters are "indestructible".

When the lunatic fringe was just that, and ignorable, sue. But when the fringe has become a large part of the main fabric, when it seems sometimes that the rational, sane fans who read strictly for pleasure have become the fringe --- then we're in trouble.

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Leigh Hunt
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 4  

I agree with Stephen that Brubaker is doing an amazing thing with Bucky's return - something I never thought possible and yes, Cap/Steve Rogers is having to re-evaluate things.

Your mention of births, JB, is that why you decided to end FF #267 the way you did?
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 5  

John Bodin: Watchmen -- the earlier Squadron Supreme story told the same tale and did it better -- the only reason this story was so popular, and the only reason it eclipsed the Squadron Supreme story, and the reason it has endured is the undeniable attraction of the cutely benign, iconic yellow smiley with the bloody bullet hole in its forehead.  Reason it didn't need to be told:  This marked the TRUE beginning of the "deconstruction for fun and profit" trend.  Darwyn Cooke's DC: The New Frontier was a much, MUCH stronger story than Watchmen, but nobody even seemed to notice because despite the fact that it told a DAMN good story, it lacked the inherent kewlness of a bloody smiley -- proof positive that there is no accounting for taste.

---

Sorry, John, cannot agree with you there.

WATCHMEN was a pretty seminal story for a lot of reasons. Lots of people don't like it and think it was a mistake, but it made a huge impact in the market. I think the story deserves the acclaim its received. I haven't read New Frontier but (and I say this as a guy who likes Mark Gruenwald's work) I don't think Squadron Supreme really compares to Watchmen.

And... point of information: the smiley face button doesn't have a bullet hole in the forehead, it has a smear of blood at the "five minutes to midnight" position. The "bullethole smiley" was something that came after, unrelated to Watchmen.

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Jo Harvatt
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 6  

"the only reason this story was so popular, and the only reason it eclipsed the Squadron Supreme story, and the reason it has endured is the undeniable attraction of the cutely benign, iconic yellow smiley with the bloody bullet hole in its forehead"

Personally I only buy comics that have a cute smiley face on. The fact that it was one of the most interesting and well illustrated comics I had read in a long time had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 7  

Pretty much any story that changes the character's status quo in a way that takes them away from their core concept (mitigating Spider-Man's sense of responsibility, reducing Batman's survivor's guilt and need to avenge his parents' deaths, making Superman only one survivor of Krypton among many [after thinking he was the Last Son], etc.) seems like an intrinsically BAD story.

Bucky's resurrection? Terrible idea.

The weddings of Clark Ken/Lois Lane and Peter Parker/Mary Jane Watson? Terrible ideas both.

They just don't work. They sound kewl but they change who these people are fundamentally... and shouldn't be written.

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Brian Hunt
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 8  

Any story that turns Gwen Stacy into a liar with bastard children gets my vote. 

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William McCormick
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Joined: 26 February 2006
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 9  

Sins past.

I see no reaon to go and demean and quite frankly creepify the spiderman mythos like that.

****************

Could not agree more Mr. Matthewman. And I knew eventually we would agree on something.

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David Whiteley
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 10  

Talisman was hardly a "unknown sibling". She first appeared in as Michael's
daughter in "Alpha Flight" #5 as part of Shaman's origin sequence.

As for power levels, Talisman may have had a lot of strength in battling
magical menaces, but Shaman's abilities could be used in any situation.

edited to add: At least that is the impression based on the issues I read.

edited to clarify.

Edited by David Whiteley on 03 February 2007 at 9:39am
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David Whiteley
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 11  

I did not notice this first time around, but"Watchmen" did not have a bloody
bullet-hole ridden smiley face. It was a drop of blood. The bullet-hole
smiley face was from something else. Cannot remember if it was a comic
book or something else, though.
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Rey Madrinan
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Posted: 03 February 2007 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 12  

Gonna have to support whoever said it and say that Squadron Supreme and New Frontier were way better then Watchmen. They told the "superheroes in the real world" story without tearing the source material down nearly as much  ( Or as in the case with NF, not at all!!)
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