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Topic: Q: for John Byrne...ANYTHING you enjoy these days? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Stephen Sadowski
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Posted: 18 January 2007 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | 1  


 In comics, that is...

 Over the past while reading  your posts, I get the overwhelming feeling of  sadness and disdain about how you feel about comics. You have said that you dont really even LOOK at most modern comics, anymore...even though I know you could be given alist of some AMAZING comics being produced. You have also said you dont like to comment about modern Artists in comics and whether you like them or not..but it would be great to hear SOMETHING positive about modern comics from you!
 So, the question is really..is there NOTHING on the racks that gives you "THAT" feeling ...have you even TRIED to look?

 If you are looking for something to give you hope, my first suggestion is  Kirkmans 'INVINCIBLE' from Image. Trust me, its GREAT! I'm sure there will be more to follow mine.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 2  

You have said that you dont really even LOOK at
most modern comics, anymore

***

I've said I don't read/follow. I look. That's where
the "sadness and disdain" comes from.
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Fred J Chamberlain
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 3  

John, do you check out any independent stuff? Non superhero material at all? Terry Moore's Stranger in Paradise has had many moments of brilliance and he has an amazing way with visualizing emotion, blatantly and subtley.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 4  

I find almost all the art these days boring. 
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Andy Smith
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 5  

< I find almost all the art these days boring. >

I can't imagine that. There is a ton of great art out there. The level of the game as gone up.
As an artist I get inspired by the level of some of the work that is out there.

Andy
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 6  

Don't get me wrong, the art is very well drawn. But there's no sense of action, dynamism. 
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Patrick Drury
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 7  

I find almost all the art these days boring.
----------------------------

I think bad writers are a dime a dozen these days, but man, I can find all kinds of art I like:

Frank Quitely, Paul Pope, Olivier Copiel, Chris Sprouse, Becky Cloonan, Eduardo Risso, Gene Ha, Goran Parlov, Ron Garney, Marcello Frusin, Tony Moore, Phillip Bond, Gabriel Ba, Rags Morales, Pascul Ferry, Eddie Campbell, Ryan Sook, Frazer Irving, Patrick Gleason, Carlos Pacheco, J.H. Williams, Bryan Hitch, Stuart Immonen...

The list goes on.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 8  


 QUOTE:
Don't get me wrong, the art is very well drawn. But there's no sense of action, dynamism. 

Agreed.  Much of it is very pretty, but not very exciting.

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Paul Greer
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 9  

The dynamics of comics seems to be lost. Do some of todays artists technically draw better looking pictures? You betcha. Are they able to tell a story without words, like those before them? Not many. Having said that, who is to blame for this? If an artist only cuts his chops by doing comics that have little to no action, how are they going to develop the dynamics needed for creating great comics? Not all current artists are having this problem, but I see folks who have basic problems with drawing action panel to panel. They draw a great looking character pose or cover, but when more is needed I'm not as impressed. What should be a few pages each filled with six panels of movement and an actual fight, is replaced with a splash or two of  jumbo battle scenes. Does it look pretty? You betcha. Does it give me the sense of excitement and illustrate a real struggle? Not always.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 10  

The dynamics of comics seems to be lost.

***

What's been lost is the GRANDEUR. Superhero
comics used to be bigger than life. Today, and for
the last decade, the trend has been to bring
everything down to "street level". It's like the
comment Roy Thomas made about the New
Universe -- today's comics read more like TV
movies.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 11  


 QUOTE:
What's been lost is the GRANDEUR.

That too.

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Paul Greer
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 12  

I do feel like some of todays comics are storyboards for movies or television, rather than comic books. The irony of comics being made this way, is that Hollywood still won't use those comics for their "better" movie stories. Let all writers and artists know it is still just a waste of time. Do comics and forget about the movies. Hollywood doesn't want your stories, just the characters.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 13  

Once upon a time, comics used to be able to offer something Hollywood couldn't. The way I expressed it was that when George Lucas wanted to film an alien planet, he had to take his crew to Tunisia, whereas I shot on location.

Comics had a "bigness" that the movies didn't. To do in a movie what Jack Kirby did in a comic would either cost most of the production budget, or run the risk of looking incredibly cheesy. But that's not so, anymore. Computer graphics have provided moviemakers with essentially the same "pallette" Kirby had -- if you want that alien cityscape, or that starship, or that incredible parallel dimension, you simply create it in the computer.

So, when we see something like STAR WARS, or SKY CAPTAIN, or SPIDER-MAN, we see the stuff that used to be strictly the province of comics -- and we see it bigger and better.

What's odd, tho, is that the current crop of comic creators seems largely to have responded to this challenge by backing down. They have effectively surrendered to Hollywood, saying "I can't do what they do, so I will do less." So we get painted panels of Tony Stark talking on his cell phone. We get heroes standing around arguing with each other. We get whole issues in which the title character does not appear in costume. (We are, after all, embarassed by costumes. Hollywood told us we should be.)

What we don't get, except very rarely, is the kind of over-the-top stuff that used to be the cornerstone of superhero comics. We don't get Superman smashing thru walls, we get him sitting on clouds. We don't get the Hulk ripping tanks apart, we get page after page of Bruce Banner feeling sorry for himself.

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Andy Smith
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 14  

< Don't get me wrong, the art is very well drawn. But there's no sense of action, dynamism. >

Maybe in some of the books, but  there are lots of artists like Pacheco, A. Davis, Larsen, Yanick Paquette, Ivan Reis and Hitch just to name a few that have great action and dynamics in their work.

It comes down to your personal taste.

andy
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 15  

"What's odd, tho, is that the current crop of comic creators seems largely to have responded to this challenge by backing down"

Very interesting ...
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 16  

What JB said
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 17  

"Pacheco, A. Davis, Larsen, Yanick Paquette, Ivan Reis and Hitch"

I enjoy the work (and dynamism!) of most of those artists.
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 18  

Andy, I like those examples of artists you listed above but I'm not familiar with Pacquette. What is some of the stuff he has worked on?
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Ben Mcvay
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 19  

I'm looking forward to Perez's Brave and the Bold and have been loving FF: The End.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 20  

Don't get me wrong, the art is very well drawn. But there's no sense of action, dynamism.

+++

Maybe in some of the books, but† there are lots of artists like Pacheco, A. Davis, Larsen, Yanick Paquette, Ivan Reis and Hitch just to name a few that have great action and dynamics in their work.

It comes down to your personal taste.

****

What it comes down to, is that you should not be able to make a list like that. You should not, when confronted with the statement that too many are doing it wrong, trot out half a dozen names of those who are, you feel, doing it right. In the "Marvel Age" the half dozen names would be those who were on the wrong side of the coin. The list of books that were going above and beyond, and the artists providing that work, would have been the long one.

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Stanton L. Kushner
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 21  

I don't think Andy meant that those are the *only* guys doing it right. 
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GŁnther Seydlitz
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 22  

These days comic book art looks more like storyboards...boring
storyboards.

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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 23  


 QUOTE:
What it comes down to, is that you should not be able to make a list like that.

Good point.

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Bodhi Radl
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 24  

"What's odd, tho, is that the current crop of comic creators seems largely to have responded to this challenge by backing down. They have effectively surrendered to Hollywood, saying "I can't do what they do, so I will do less." So we get painted panels of Tony Stark talking on his cell phone. We get heroes standing around arguing with each other. We get whole issues in which the title character does not appear in costume. (We are, after all, embarassed by costumes. Hollywood told us we should be.)

What we don't get, except very rarely, is the kind of over-the-top stuff that used to be the cornerstone of superhero comics. We don't get Superman smashing thru walls, we get him sitting on clouds. We don't get the Hulk ripping tanks apart, we get page after page of Bruce Banner feeling sorry for himself. "

________________________________________________

Very well put. I have expressed a similar opinion numerous times on other boards, and usually with the same response: "but the stories are so much better now", or "the characters have so much more deapth now that writers don't have to rely on pages of useless fighting." Of course these responses are totally inacurate. There were some great stories told back in those days of the fisticuffs, I daresay even some better stories, plus you had the exceptionally exciting action scenes that we all remember so fondly.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 January 2007 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 25  

We come back to that ol' debbil lack of sophistication -- this time in the audience. "This story has lots of panels of people standing around talking. It must be deep!"

Previous "generations" used to know how to write stories in which there was huge amounts of action --- and depth of characterization. That, in fact, was what gave birth to the whole "Marvel Age".

Today, we have professionals and readers who are so embarassed to have anything to do with superheroes (yet are addicted to them, in the first case for the money, in the second for the "fix") that they must try to knock down the stories of yore. "Oh, those were just giant slugfests! They didn't have any depth." Right. The saga of Bruce Banner or Ben Grimm had no "depth". The death of Franklin Storm had no "depth". The first coming of Galactus had no "depth". The Master Planner arc had no "depth". Hell, did the death of Junior Juniper have no "depth"? Not a month went by that there was not a steady flow of comics that were exciting, dynamic, bursting with energy -- and full of human drama. More in a single issue, in other words, than a year's worth of monthlies too often contains today.*



*Of course, for some books that is a single
issue!

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