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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 1  

I would definitely say, however, that Peter Parker is the stronger persona over Spider-Man.  He is who he is due to his humanity rather than his powers.

*******************

Originally, Spider-Man was the ultimate wish-fulfillment character. Whereas Clark Kent, during the same period, was an "act" and Superman the "real" character, Spider-Man was in many ways an "act," and Peter Parker who he really was. Spider-Man was the "rock star persona" -- Peter's id unrestrained. Peter would always be too polite to refer to Jameson as "old Flat-Top" but Spider-Man easily would.

This is why it always seemed "off" to refer to Spider-Man and Peter interchangeably. Just as I don't like how in modern comics, Peter pretty much behaves like Spider-Man even when out of costume. In the Lee/Ditko classics, Peter was much more morose and glum than the cocky Spider-Man -- and even when Spider-Man was, while in costume, brooding, it was in Peter's internal monologue.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 2  

The key element is "escape". With the exception of the Hulk (obviously!), and the FF, who had no "secret identities" (despite what STRANGE TALES told us!), for most of the early Marvel heroes their alter-egos presented them with an "escape" from their daily lives. For Peter Parker, an escape from the uber-nerd label, for Tony Stark an escape from the pressures of his high-octane life, for Don Blake an escape from his frail, lame human form. Even for the X-Men, their costumed identities provided them with an escape from the stigma of mutant-phobia --- mutants they were, but clearly being the good guys, right out there and in the open, rather than having always to hide their powers.
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 3  

In the case of the FF, I always refer to Reed and Sue by their real names. But I always say The Human Torch and The Thing when refering to Johnny and Ben. I might refer to the Green Lanterns by their first names because there are so many and I'm trying to be specific on which one I'm talking about. Outside of those exceptions, I always call the characters by their superhero names when discussing their adventures in uniform.
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 4  

There are a few cases where I'm more likely to refer to, or think of characters by their civilian names. These include the FF members, since it just seems natural for me to think of them as Ben, Reed, etc. Also, Spider-Man gets thought of as Peter sometimes, but not always, possibly because I identified with him so much as a youngster.

   I tend to think of GLs as Hal, or Guy or Alan, but that's just for easier differentiation.

   The X-Men seem to go either way, sometimes by code names, other times by civilian names. I might say "Cyclops" but I never say "Cyclops and Marvel Girl" but rather "Scott and Jean"

    Superman is always Superman, Batman is always Batman.

     Captain America is certainly always Captain America.  

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Ray Brady
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 5  

I'm sure part of the problem originates from the fact that the super-hero personae keep losing their uniqueness. It does me little good to say that I'm a fan of the Green Lantern or the Flash, since each could now apply to a half dozen different characters. Only by referring to Hal Jordan or Wally West will my audience know exactly who I'm talking about. Every new incarnation of Aquaman or the Atom or the Blue Beetle that comes along dilutes the super-hero identity and reinforces the notion that the civilian identities are what matter.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 6  

I find that I use Peter Parker and Spider-Man interchangeably.  I'm not saying I should, but I definitely do.  I think it stems from all the scenes of Spider-Man webslinging his way across town, but his monologue is about Peter Parker's travails.
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Ron Chevrier
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 11:33pm | IP Logged | 7  

"Joey da Q once said in an interview that most Marvel characters are the civilian identity first and foremost, with an alter ego."


Uh, yeah, go ahead and call the Incredible Hulk  "Bruce" and let me know how that works out for ya.

I think that  most of Marvel's characters are pretty much the same person in or out of uniform. Certainly the X-Men and the Fantastic Four don't worry about maintaining a different facade whether in or out of costume. Captain America and Hawkeye have only marginal civilian I.D's, as does Wonder Man. Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Man  and Daredevil were the big Marvel guns that tended to worry about keeping their civilian and heroic personas separate. Sadly, recent events have rendered all this moot anyhow.
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Rafael Guerra
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Posted: 20 December 2006 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | 8  

Overall, the characters I like the most, I call them regularly by their first names. Clark, Bruce, Hal, etc. Or at least, interchangeably.

The ones I don't, I call them strictly by their superhero names, or last names, if applicable. Spider-Man, Hulk, Richards, etc.

The only exception is Captain America, who is a character I really like and almost never refer to him as Steve. He's mostly Cap to me.

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Shaun Crowell
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Posted: 21 December 2006 at 1:18am | IP Logged | 9  

I still don't like it that Jean Grey doesn't go by Marvel Girl or Phoenix or some other code name. It just doesn't sound right to me Cyclops, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Storm, Jean Grey...
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Kevin Tuma
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Posted: 21 December 2006 at 3:21am | IP Logged | 10  

Joey da Q once said in an interview that most Marvel characters are the civilian identity first and foremost, with an alter ego. 

As far as names, I agree with this for the most part...Wolverine, Mr. Fantastic, the Thing, and Spider-man are very easy to call "Logan", "Reed", "Ben", and "Peter". By contrast, Wonder Woman does not summon up "Diana" very easily, I call the Flash 'the Flash', and Superman and Batman seem to be very clearly delineated namesakes depending on whether they have the costume on, or not. 

At least in the case of Batman, I would say that Bruce Wayne is a disguise. I believe it was "Arkham Asylum" where the criminals were about to unmask him, saying "I want to see his real face"--to which the Joker aptly replied, "That is his real face, you moron!" Good scene. :-)

 

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Joakim Jahlmar
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Posted: 21 December 2006 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 11  

JB wrote:
"It has to do, I think, with the lessening of the awe factor that used to be so much a part of comicbook mythology."

You've said this before but, with the caveat that I did not see the 60s and most of the 70s as they happened, I am not at all sure what exactly you mean by the "awe factor". One of the things that has always had me more hooked on Marvel than DC, and also why your comics have appealed to me, is convincing treatment of character. Now, don't get me wrong, I find Spider-Man fighting Doctor Octopus as intriguing as the next guy, but it's the fact that it's counterposed with the everyday problems of Peter Parker that really seals the deal for me. It was so when I was a kid and it still is. Having recently read Essential Spider-Man Volume 1 (some of the material of which I've read in Swedish in my youth), I was really struck by how effectively Stan Lee actually built up this link to the readers, making them really care for the characters of Peter and his surrounding cast. I think that the sometimes derogatory commented upon "soap opera" element of superhero comics have been a very integral part of the genres success for quite sometime, although not necessarily noted by everyone.

As to what I'd call them myself, I'd probably mostly use the most appropriate name for the occasion. Spider-Man fights the supercriminals, Peter Parker is taking the pictures for Jameson and dating MJ, etc.
Although some may slip more easily, e.g. the FF since they don't really have secret identities and therefore often tend to talk inbetween themselves in familiar ways.

As for the Hulk / Banner relation... that one is complex enough so that referencing one doesn't at all necessarily reference the other. Their personalities are separated enough for that distinction.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 December 2006 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 12  

I am not at all sure what exactly you mean by the "awe factor".

***

When I was a kid, superheroes bestrode the universe like gods. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash --- these were larger than life characters. Mythic characters.

Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko brought that down a notch, with the "street level" characters they created at the start of the "Marvel Age" -- but even if the characters worried about paying the bills or getting a zit on Prom night, they were still people in whose presence one could be sure to feel somewhat small and insignificant. Even someone like Spider-Man, who was in his own real life small and insignificant, became so much more in costume.

They were people who, if I had met them, I would always have addressed with the proper respect -- with "Mr" or "Miss" or "Doctor" or "Professor" or whatever else was appropriate,

Stan encouraged the personalization of the letter columns, with "Dear Stan and Jack" or "Dear Stan and Steve" instead of DC's colder and more distant "Dear Editor", and with this I think he may have accidentally opened the door for a similar way of thinking about the characters. So the native awe that had been so important to the superhero mythos began to slowly erode, and where we sit today was the long result.

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