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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 5:17am | IP Logged | 1  

The hyphenation thing has bugged me since childhood. A glance at any map of the world reveals that Africa stretches from the northern Sahara all the way down to Cape Agulhas -- and across that span there are many different races, all of whom are "native" (ie, born there). Charlize Theron, being Afrikanner, joked on SNL about being "African-America", yet she has as at least as much claim to the term -- probably more -- as does, say, Will Smith (who was not born in Africa). Egyptians are not referred to as "African-Americans", yet they are.

The "Asian-American" label is just as dumb, considering the expanse of Asia.

This is all part of the steady mutation of the Melting Pot into the "Cultural Mosaic" -- and as Frank Miller so pointedly noted, a mosaic is something made out of broken pieces.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 5:20am | IP Logged | 2  

Though African-Americans dont often have that option since their cultural/national/tribal/whatever identity was "lost" once they got to America.

****

Something that drove me absolutely nuts, when ROOTS was telecast, and suddenly Black couples all over America were naming their newborn sons Kunte Kinte -- without bothering to check if maybe Alex Haley's Mandinka peoples were the bitter enemies of their own ancestors. Haley must have dispaired to see the whole point of his monumental effort lost like that.

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Mike Norris
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:05am | IP Logged | 3  

The hyphenation thing has bugged me since childhood. A glance at any map of the world reveals that Africa stretches from the northern Sahara all the way down to Cape Town -- and across that span there are many different races, all of whom are "native" (ie, born there). Charlize Theron, being Afrikanner, joked on SNL about being "African-America", yet she has as at least as much claim to the term -- probably more -- as does, say, Will Smith (who was not born in Africa). Egyptians are not referred to as "African-Americans", yet they are.

The "Asian-American" label is just as dumb, considering the expanse of Asia.

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Dont we have our own ingnorance  to blame for that?  When we say "African" we think Kenya not Egypt. When we say "Asian" we think China not India. Those images have more or less been pounded into our heads.

Though again for most Americans who ancestry is from Africa, "African-American" is a about as close as they can get.I suppose it would be nice to be a "Mandika-American" but its a bit hard to track down. Not sure every family would be as lucky as Alex Haley.  Though as a European-American, I cant track my family past my grandparents either. It's all guess work based on family names. European-American or to get a little more specific Northwestern European American (maybe). I guess we've been here so long American-American is correct. My wife is lucky in that area. Her grandparents were immigrants. Italy and Mexico.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:10am | IP Logged | 4  

My family goes back 1000 years (the first of the name {Beorn} died in 1052), but that serves only to create another problem, since the last thing I want to be called (other than "dead") is "Irish-American".

Curious (genuinely) why you define Alex Haley as "lucky", tho.

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Mike Norris
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 5  

His family seemed to have preserved enough of their Mandinka background to give him the information needed to trace his roots. Plus with each generation more of that information is lost. Had Mr. Haley been of my generation or the genration of my nieces and nephews it's possible that he would not have been as succesful in tracking his roots. I know I'm pretty much stonewalled in tracking mine because the generation that could have help me passed on.
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Jay Matthews
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 6  

One of the other things that bugs me about "African-American" is that we never say "African." 

Let me explain.  We only use "Irish American" or "Italian American" or "Greek American" in a demographic discussion.  In other words, we use those terms in an academic way to refer to whole people groups.  But in a casual discussion about an individual person, we say "He's Italian," or "I'm Greek on my mother's side."

But we never say "He's African," or "two African guys gave a presentation today."  It's the hyphenated version, or nothing at all.

For most uses, I'm sticking with black, white, etc., fully expecting to do mea culpas to my grandchildren that "we didn't know any better then."  (It's what I think of when I cringe at the use of "colored" in an old book)

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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 7  

Off topic but as an aside, Alex Haley lived in my hometown while writing Roots.
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:25am | IP Logged | 8  

Black seems to be the commonly used term.At least by people I know.  African-American is  used in more formal setting like a newspaper article. I think we like things short and simple, the hyphenates are just too long.

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Dave Carr
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 9  

My neighbors are black.  I tend to call them "The Johnsons".
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 10  

Black seems to be the commonly used term.At least by people I know.

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This is one of those places where we crash into differences of time and place. When I was a child in England, "nigger" was a perfectly harmless word, and lots of people named their black dogs or cats that. The actual title of Agatha Christie's novel is "Ten Little Niggers", from the rhyme of the same name. On the other hand, the quickest way to get punched out by someone of Sub-Saharan African decent was to call them "black". That was the Number One slur, and was used for just about anybody who wasn't White, regardless of their actual ethnicity. (My maternal grandfather -- a policeman, no less! -- hardly ever used it without "bloody" in front. Indians, for instance, were "bloody blacks".)

Thru-out much of my childhood and even early adolescence, the "correct" word for African people was "Negro". No one in polite society would ever have considered using anything else.

I still cringe a bit when people say "Black".

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Elliot Smith
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 11  

I've always liked the word "Negro". It sounds kinda cool.  I wonder why that one has fallen so far out of fashion.   I usually use the word "black", because "African-American" is such a cumbersome phrase to blurt out in casual conversation.  Oddly enough, I prefer to be referred to as a "Homo-American" and get offended when anyone just calls me "gay."  Either that, or "Fag" is okay.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 12  

Even as a kid I always hated the "black" appendage to any African-African superhero's name. I never thought of my friends that way. "Black" Jonathan, "Black" Curtis, "Black" Fleming?! Huh?!

So... Black Falcon, etc., equally moronic.

Black Storm? Feh!

Tangent: JB's Ororo was the best character in his X-MEN run. (And then she was utterly ruined.)

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