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Topic: Question for JB. Unused X-Men plots Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Beam Me Up, Scotty!

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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

About the Cyclops robot, something keeps nagging
me that it was Ultron in disguise which led to the
Avengers crossover. Why? I dunno

*****

Me neither. I have no memory of the Ultron plot.

It may have been something that existed only for the
time it took to write that list! There were a lot of
those!
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David Whiteley
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I cannot see Ultron disguising himself as anyone, and I don't think he has the emotional ties to the X-Men to involve them like this. Unless ... there is something more going on here...

It's that damn Delphine Courtney, time-travelling. Okay, maybe not! Besides, one time travelling story around that time is enough.


Edited by David Whiteley on 31 August 2006 at 12:31pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Something I love about Delphine is the fact that she corrected Heather Hudson in Alpha Flight # 12 by saying that she was a robot instead of an android.

All too often, people mix up the terms, probably because "android" sounds more advanced than good 'ol "robot".

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Scott Rowland
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Would this have been around the time of Avengers 161 when Ultron disabled everyone and stole the Wasp?  That might have been a reasonable tie-in, if the Avengers tried to get reinforcements and the Beast suggested the X-Men.

But I'm pretty sure the Avengers story happened well before this.
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David Whiteley
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Greg, I loved that whole sequence too. Especially the line, "Now, if you do not wish me to chastise you further..." and what follows.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

One of the best issues of anything, ever!
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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

To the guy that asked about Stevie Hunter. I read that issue recently and I'm pretty sure all it meant was that Storm is uncomfortable just because she sees Stevie as a rival for Kitty's admiration.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

This thread is a wonderful surprise.  Does anyone want to take a stab at compiling all that we know about the "X-Men that could have been"?  I know there are ideas that run along one track and not another (depending on if Jean lives or not)-- but I would love to see all that is known about the various unrealized plans. 

For example, I read once about JB's plans for issue 150, but can't remember what they were.  I also love what I've seen about the "wideawake" project-- maybe there's more out there.  This thread would be a great place to gather everything there is. 

...Provided someone has time to pull the threads together into, say, two competing lists (plans if Jean had lived/plans after Jean died). 


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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Capital idea, Mark H. Let's break out those old Comic Journals, Comic Readers, and whatever else we were reading for news around then!

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Wasn't issue #150 when Jean and Scott were going to get married?
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James Revilla
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Magneto vs Phoenix i beleive
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

...two competing lists (plans if Jean had lived/plans after Jean died).

***

Tricky, since, as noted, there were also the plans that were abandoned almost as soon as they were conceived.

When you're plotting as far ahead as Chris and I used to on UNCANNY, or I used to on FF or ALPHA FLIGHT -- note, 2 years on UNCANNY! -- stuff often gets cooked up and then forgotten. (Well -- I forget. As I have mentioned before, Chris never seemed to forget anything. After I left X-MEN I had this strange feeling I was still plotting it, in a negative way, as Chris used, in order, every thread, arc-part or bit that I had said "no" to -- in order! Even if he had to pound them into different shapes to wrap around characters other than originally intended.)

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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Wasn't issue #150 when Jean and Scott were going to get married?

***

As originally plotted, depowered Jean was to be left with the intellectual level of a four year old. So...ewww!

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Jeff Lommel
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

I'm sure there was "no quarter asked, none given", between Chris and those plots he was pounding on.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Man, I love this thread!
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Chronoligical lists would be tricky-- perhaps the best thing is to collect all the anecdotes and ideas people recall and just slap 'em into this thread somehow. 

-- and I NEVER realized Jean was to be left as an intellectual child.  That makes a lot of things clearer to me about what the original plan was and how horrible a punishment Lillandra was enacting.

Was Jean to be condemned to "grow up" again a little at a time?  I wonder what the general idea was to be for dealing with such a damaged character?
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James Revilla
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I recall an interview where JB said that Jean would be "simple" minded but the Phoenix would pop up...I believe he used her getting jumped coming out of a movie theater....and this lead up to Magneto kidnapping Jean and locking her in a room with "Phoenix". Him having found a way to bring the dormant personality back...and while the team was fighting Magneto to get to her, she was in the room fighting the darker part of herself...
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Cory Vandernet
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Posted: 31 August 2006 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Found something in Comics Feature No. 4 July/August 1980.

This excerpt seems to match up with the timeline I found and has the original, original Dark Phoenix ending.

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Jeremiah Hetherington
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 1:07am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Astounding. Great, great find Cory.
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Ethan Riley
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 1:36am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Here is part of the interview from The Art of John Byrne, which I (mis)paraphrased earlier in this thread lol. This details the plans John had for the new, smaller Sentinel pictured with Gyrich in this thread. As I said earlier, the plot almost sounds like what they're doing in Civil War right now. John pointed out that it sounded like he was talking about the plot of "Days of Future Past," but this sounds like he was talking about a present-day scenario:

"There will be new Sentinels...They'll be coming out of the Hellfire Club, which is a sequence that is beginning now. The X-Men will trash the Hellfire Club, without realizing that the Hellfire Club is a legitimate organization. You "join the Hellfire Club" ... it's a nice thing to be in. Its only the inner circle that are the bad guys. One of the members of the Hellfire Club is Mastermind, and he will cloak everything so that when the X-Men come in swinging, people can't see that they're fighting bad guys, they just see them trashing this businessmen's club, of which, for example, Warren Worthington's father was a member. Since members of the Hellfire Club are high ranking doctors, lawyers, senators, congressmen, they will sit and say, "Well, these X-Men characters, they say they were good guys, and they just trashed this businessmen's club!" So there's going to be a sub-plot almost, of Sentinels, which will be man-sized. They will probably be built by someplace like Stark International, so these will not be putzy Sentinels. Or Cross Technologies, or one of the biggies that we've got, to establish that these are not whimpo Sentinels, these are tough Sentinels. And the thing that we're not going to do of course, is this will not lead to a big X-Men/Sentinels battle issue. This will be like a constant menace, an anti-mutant police force. We'll be coordinating with the Avengers, so that the Beast and the Scarlet Witch are required to wear bleepers in their costumes, or something so that people know where they are at all times. ... we're gonna keep mutants so that we know where they are! They've demonstrated that they are bad. Then of course, we'll clear them sooner or later, and then the Sentinels will go away. We'll be doing little stories with the X-men chasing, say, Unus he Untouchable. They crash into where ever Unus is, "We're gonna trash him now!"...and he's gone. There's a big hole in the wall, because the Sentinels go there first. It will be like that until we reveal that there are Sentinels out there..."



Edited by Ethan Riley on 01 September 2006 at 1:38am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 5:23am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Historical error in that timeline Cory posted. It was not Chris and me who decided against the new students -- it was Shooter, who declared them the "Legion of Substitute X-Men" and killed the idea --- until a few years later it became his idea, in the form of the New Mutants.
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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 8:34am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

I don't see why they can't just have her control Phoenix and be upgraded to god status or something. She's dead now anyway. :/ If only they'd stop bringing her back.
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Andrew Hess
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

RE: Ethan's excerpt above -

Too bad this storyline was never followed. It would have been cool to have that story arc go on for a while.

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Andrew Hess
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

oops, and RE: Cory's new find -

What does it say in the rest of the article? "Finally Claremont and Byrne settled on a . . ."???

". . . plan of action"?

". . . restaurant for lunch"?

". . . date for their final duel"?

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John Mietus
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Posted: 01 September 2006 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

". . . plot of land and raised potatoes and chinchillas"?
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