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Sam Karns
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 1  

Couldn't M****L and DC do something about this and If so where do they start from?  Does the DSM have contract with these Comic book companies?
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Robert Oren
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 2  

The i think were as much to blame as anyone. We all  fell for all those die-cut,metallic covers or limited edition covers back in the day. i saw so many people worry about what cover to buy instead of caring about what's inside that book. it wasn't a matter of what touched your heart it was more of a matter of value and greed!!!!!!!
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 3  

Robert Oren: i saw so many people worry about what cover to buy instead of caring about what's inside that book. it wasn't a matter of what touched your heart it was more of a matter of value and greed!!!!!!!

I managed to avoid this problem entirely, mostly due to the fact that I was only making $5.50 an hour in 1992 and making a $400 a month rent payment on my apartment.  I couldn't afford to be a speculator, even if I had wanted to.  Luckily, I also had the foresight to realize that if everyone was buying that foil-stamped embossed die-cut glow-in-the-dark cover, who was going to want one two years down the road?

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Lars Johansson
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 4  

I know little about the subject, so I should not say much, but to me my "instinct" tells me that the collectibles such as cards was part of the decline. Also, the fact hat they thought that they had a gold mine when they had the rights to the Marvel characters, and then didn't care too much about the artists/writers.
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Robert White
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 5  

I think we all agree that the root of the industries problem is the beast that is the modern DSM. However, if we are to narrow our scope to Marvel alone, I would go back and talk Jim Shooter out of doing Secret Wars I and certainly II. Allowing top creators like JB to continue work on FF and Hulk, while he did Superman for DC, would have been a close second. Creatively, Marvel has never recovered from that exodus of talent.
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Robert White
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 6  

The collector mentality is right there with the DSM. The nature of a collector's hobby naturally causes older people to linger around and hogging all the toys, while younger fans get turned off by the presence of all the "grumpy old farts."
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 7  

Allowing top creators like JB to continue work on FF and Hulk, while he did Superman for DC, would have been a close second.

***

Sad thing there is that while Shooter was busy calling me a quisling, his immediate superior, Mike Hobson, wished me luck on SUPERMAN, saying (wisely) that anything that was good for DC could not help but be good for the industry as a whole.

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Robert Oren
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 8  

Let's go one further if i may .....and maybe i'm wrong but this only my opinion.

it seems every time someone writes an alright story ...he becomes the comic god for that week and is automatically put on a top book.then when they are not hot anymore the next redhot guy pops in. it seems to me that people never stay long? never create a history with a book ! Now i know kirby or J.B. runs are long dead.but please at least give someone a chance to get a good feel for the book!!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 9  

There are two forces working in lethal parallel there, Robert. One is an audience which is not only fickle, but which delights in being fickle. Many seem to enjoy a riches-to-rags story even more than rags-to-riches -- especially if they were not part of the rags-to-riches. They did not help create, but they are eager to destroy.

Then there are the so-called "professionals" themselves, far too many of which are anything but. People who, as Frank Miller once put it, "do three issues and want a parade." And, alas, these worthless prima donnas are able to find far, far to many brain dead "collectors" who are eager to support them while they are "growing roses." To the point, even, of making lateness a badge of honor, and producing books on time an indication of shoddy workmanship.

This is one of the things I feared, back when my spider-sense tingled at the dawn of the DSM -- to much power in the hands of the wrong people (ie, not the Companies).

Remember when Marvel and DC were the pathfinders, not the panderers?

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Brandon Pennison
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 10  

Like it or not, the only book lately with that kind of staying power has been Ultimate Spider-man.  About to be 100 issues of the same writer and artist....at least it has that going for it.... 

As far as talking about the hot flavor of the week, Wizard seems to attempt to dictate this every month, which would be a good reason why Mr. Dixon's reason for putting Wizard on there would be logical.  But the sad thing to me is people like Chuck Dixon, for which I own and have read every issue of Nightwing because of him and him alone, which got me reading DC are no longer getting the work they deserve in the comics industry.  The fact that the truly great writers and artists (Roger Stern included) are not mainstays anymore is one of the problems.  For every person reading and writing Wizard that sings Bendis' praise every month, new comic readers reading the magazine as gospel will never know who Chuck Dixon and Roger Stern are.  And of course they will know JB is a jerk, because that is what is preached.

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Brian Tait
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 11  

While I agree totally about the DSM and it's negative effect on the marketplace, I also wonder about Marvels decision to go public.
When that happens you now have to answer to a board of directors and your stockholders. The only thing they are interested in is their dividends. A constant and increasing return on their investment.
If Marvel had not gone public, would the marketplace be any different today, or was it (going public) simply inevitable.
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Chuck Dixon
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 12  

Words of iron.

But what baffles me is that these "hot" talents are given assignments based on hype rather than performance. Creators whose books are selling steady if not spectacularly are removed so that sexy new talent can take over. More often than not the sales fall below that of the former less-sexy team and never again rise to their former numbers no matter how many rounds of musical creative chairs are played. But those replacement guys maintain their gloss and keep getting books until Gareb Shamus no longer wants to party with them.

And if all of this star-chasing (to clean up the term) resulted in higher sales I'd just admit I'm clueless and go away. But each month's figures prove me right. It's a slow downward spiral but its ever downward.

In the end, it shows a lack of any kind of leadership and chases off good talent.

I was told recently that to get more work at a major company I would have to "party with" and "buddy up" to certain people.

That ain't me, babe.

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