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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 1
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You've got a time machine and want to go back to the past, to prevent the
decline and fall of Marvel. Which event must you avert?
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Chuck Dixon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 174
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 2
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The publication of Wizard magazine.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6413
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 3
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The Birth of McFarlane, JoeQ and Liefeld!
Edited by Juan Jose Colin Arciniega on 10 July 2006 at 9:40am
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Simon Matthew Park Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 2156
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 4
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The beginnings of the direct market. You'd need a hell of an itinerary, even with a time machine, in order to accomplish this aim, however.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132282
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 5
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The creation of the DSM, or, barring that, the decision to put all the eggs in that one basket.As originally conceived, the Direct Sales Market was a great idea -- a way for dealers to create a stock of back issues, and for fans to be able to purchase those back issues at reasonable prices. But even back at the very beginning, my spider-sense tingled. I saw in the DSM a great potential for disaster, more and more as the Companies began shifting product to "Direct Only" status. Yes, the DSM saved (or at least prolonged) books like MICRONAUTS, which had reached cancelation point on the newsstand. But, ultimately, was that such a good idea? About a decade ago, a poor old Collie turned up on my front porch one day. She was in terrible shape, and obviously abused. Of course I took her in, and also took her to the Vet. He found all sorts of things wrong with her, and judged that she had probably spent her life in a puppy farm, constantly pregnant. Having passed beyond the stage where she was a useful breeder, she had been taken to a nice neighborhood and dumped. A "kindness". Think of the DSM as the "nice neighborhood" for comics. I had the poor old dog for about a year and a half, making constant trips to the Vet, in the end spending about $5000 on her, before the final trip, when the Vet informed me that, yes, he could do one more medical "patch", but that was all it would be. She was in such bad shape that all I was doing was postponing the inevitable. So we decided to end her sad life. It was quick and it was painless -- at least for her. Think of that euthanasia as perhaps what would have been a better idea for many of those comics "saved" by the DSM. In the end, you see, saving comics from cancelation, shifting more and more product to the DSM only weakened Marvel (and the industry as a whole). By the time the decision was made to "pull out of the newsstand" it was kamikazee time. There was no way the industry could survive as a nitch market. There simply were not enough readers, and the move to Direct Only severely reduced what few of them there were. Then came the madness of the Speculator Boom, also fostered and nurtured by the DSM. Give me a time machine, and let me go back and prevent the creation of the Direct Sales Market. The comicbook industry today would almost certainly be a different beast from what we have, or even what it used to be -- but at least it would have got there, wherever that is, by "organic" means. (If it's a time machine that will allow two trips, then let me go back and tell the publishers, in the 1940s, not to cling to the 10¢ price tag. Raise prices along with all the other magazines.)
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7482
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 6
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I suspect the second trip might help obviate the first. If comics had "grown up" as publications alongside other, glossy magazines, they might never have lost standing on the newsstand market. Of course, there's also the Wertham/Kefauver debacle-- I might have encouraged Gaines' enemies to rally round, rather than make him the sacrificial lamb-- but the ghettoization of comics started with keeping the prices low from early on, IMHO>
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Chuck Dixon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 174
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 7
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I don’t think there was anything wrong with the DSM in theory. I had no problem with a kind of boutique side to the comics industry. The trouble began when the publishers began to listen to the retailers and respond to their complaints that newsstand and bookstore sales were “unfair competition” for them. Never mind that those venues were the entry level for new readers while comic shops were dedicated to already hardcore fans.
Another problem was that a lot of careers of high level folks in comics were tied to the early success of the DSM and they weren’t about to turn their back on the “miracle” that their reps were based on. And hiring former retailers to actually work at the comic companies simply cemented the policy in place.
It saddens me to look at old royalty statements and see how many copies I used to sell on the newsstand vs. the comic shops. So many times it was a 10-1 ratio. I could laugh all the way to the bank on books like Savage Sword of Conan which sold like crap at the comic shops but often cracked the 200K mark on the newsstand.
The DSM debacle may have gotten us to where we are. But the advent of Wizard and the star system mentality of publishers made sure we're parked in a handicapped space with four flat tires.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132282
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 8
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Much as I loathe WIZARD and the "star system", they are just gangrene. The wound that started it all was the DSM, and the steady shift into that as our sole venue. As if Hallmark had opened their stores -- and pulled their product out of every other shop, and made most cities only had on Hallmark Store.The insanity is palpable. But, hey, I've been singing this song for more than 25 years now.
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Chuck Dixon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 174
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 9
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We'll just have to agree to agree then.
I like your Hallmark analogy. It perfectly illustrates the situation. But it also illustrates what direct marketing could have been had it been kept as the boutique system it should have remained.
We COULD have had our cake and eaten it too.
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Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 10
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When you talk about the direct market, you remember me that you Americans and we Italians lives in two different comics worlds.
I go at the newsstands and I find Spider-Man. His comic book contains 3 stories and it costs 2.50 € (around 3 $). And you, if you want to read Spider-Man, must spend 3 $ for 22 pages and you can find the comics almost only in comics shops.
When an Italian comic book is sold only in comics shops, it's odd. I see more nearer to us the "American way to sell comics", and sometimes I think I'll never be used to it. Even if it will be inevitable, sooner or later. Superheroes aren't as popular as in the past, here.
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Rob Spalding Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1152
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 11
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A similar thing can be found over here in the UK, DC and Marvel have been putting out comics for the newsagents. They contain 2 or 3 stories, reprinted from the original comics.
I would be interested to see what kind of numbers these reprints sell, as they are what I have spotted more kids reading, when compared to the original printing.
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John Webb Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 October 2004 Posts: 1428
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Posted: 10 July 2006 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 12
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I think if I could change anything it would be how comics are distributed. The DSM was a great idea but the newstand market should not have been sacrificed for it. I wish I could go back in time and force someone to put as much energy into the newstand market as they did the direct market.
As an experiment I wish I could also have persuaded the guy who owned and ran Atlas comics back in 1975 to stop messing with his own products and give his own books a chance. If he had operated more wisely back then we may have had a different style of comic book industry today.
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