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Topic: The All New Atom # 1 Thread (SPOILERS) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 1  

John D... I hear your frustration... I've posted similar thoughts over the last few years here... and I have an answer for you.

Give the damn things up.  The hobby is no longer fun.  I only get the Byrne stuff and I don't even pay for it anymore - I'm so sickened by every aspect of comics, I refuse, on principle, to give the industry any of my money, in any way.  (The fact that the LCS guy pays DC for the books he's giving me for free isn't my concern. Byrne needs to get paid, after all...)

Let comics go.  There are a million better forms of entertainment out there... if you like movies, and don't mind shopping used or online, you can get thousands of titles for the price of 2 modern comics - and unlike the 5 minutes of "pleasure" you get out of a comic - most movies run 2 hours!  And with DVD, you often get extra features! 

Dude... Eraserhead is on DVD.  Forbidden Zone is on DVD.  Dude.  Bruce Campbell does an audio commentary AS Elvis on the Bubba Ho-Tep DVD.  Where can you get that kind of entertainment from comics these days?

Walk away from them.  Walk away from the over-priced lack of entertainment.  Walk away from the same-old same-old stories, passing themselves off as new because they have a titty and say "shit".  Walk away from the embarrassment of reading something that the general public thinks is for (slow) children.  Walk away from Mordichai at your local store, the mouth-breathing son of a bitch who isn't fit to run his sock drawer, much less a business.  Walk away from the embarrassment that are called comic fans.  Walk away from it all. 

I've done it, and I can't tell you how good it feels.  Do it, and then go shop in a real store for something.  Go to your comic shop, ask for Byrne, get the usual run around - about how it doesn't sell - (then, by the way, turn and look at the rack, and look at all the other books on it.  You know what they're doing there?  NOT SELLING.  I CALL BULLSHIT ON COMIC SHOPS.  2 copies of Blood of the Demon will break the store, but 100 copies of Infinity Crisis don't hurt them?  BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT) - and then go to a real store and buy a movie.

Then go home, and examine the two exchanges.  And then come back here, and honestly tell us that you still want anything to do with comics, ever again.

That goes for all of you.  And, yeah, I lucked out with the deal I get with my Byrne books, and we can't all get that lucky, but you can avoid the shops.  Get a subscription.  Order on-line. 

There's no reason to be buying comics.  There's less reason for comic shops to stay in business.  Take action, kids.   

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 2  

What you underscore here, JM, is a basic, deep rooted flaw in the Direct Sales Market. As long as there are retailers -- and in such a shrunken marketplace it would not take many of them -- who would rather "take a stand" than, you know, sell product, books like DEMON and DOOM PATROL will never have a chance. We have the same morons who are delighted to stock the latest trade paperback of "Dark Phoenix" and slap high sticker prices on their back issues of X-MEN forgetting or ignoring the fact that UNCANNY X-MEN back in my day was always just one step ahead of cancelation, and the success of that title -- along with many other low sellers such as MICRONAUTS and HOWARD THE DUCK -- were due to strong word of mouth, not retailers ordering only what they thought was "hot".

But today, because they are so incredibly stupid that they buy all the "Bad Byrne" stories and gibber them in their shops like trained baboons, there are retailers who would rather pass on a sale than support my work. Retailers who are so empty of brain that they fail to grasp even the simple fact that X-MEN became a hit because the retailers pushed it, not because they sat behind their counters chuffing "FANTASTIC FOUR sells twice as well."

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JD Morrow
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 3  

Welcome back from Earth 2, JD. Hope you enjoyed your vacation there. Now, to catch you up on what you missed while you were away, about five years ago I was doing an X-MEN book at Marvel. Yep, John Byrne back on the X-MEN. Store's should not have been able to keep it in stock, right? Unfortunately, Marvel promoted it so badly that by the sixth issue, many potential readers actually thought is was another book, published at the same time but constantly missing shipping, and by nine months out most readers still thought it was a miniseries.

Then the EiC you "respect" canceled the book while it was still profitable.

*********
I loved Hidden Years!!!

Yep, that was total bullshit, and believe you me, I voiced my opinion strongly about that to him. Unfortunately, my opinion about anything doesn't matter, but I still read him the riot act. It's the only time I didn't show him one bit of support about something, and I could tell he noticed by the way he continued talking to me about it. He was wrong. I even gave him the old "with great power comes great responsibility" speech...haha

It was disrespectful, as I told him, and you don't disrespect a legend like John Byrne, who has done more for Marvel comics than anybody not named Stan Lee and Jack Kirby (two guys who know how Marvel can show their "appreciation"), especially at the same time that you're smooching the ass of guys like Todd McFarlane and Alan Moore.   

The bottom line, though, is that people make mistakes. You, me, Quesada, everybody, and mistakes were made, no doubt, but call me overly optimistic, but I don't think it was so insurmountable that it couldn't be overcome, especially since you both truely do appear to be decent people. I'll shut up now.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 4  

How can i get free comics like Mike O'Brien does?
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 5  

Well, I gave my local store a couple of boxes of comics for their back issue bins.  So, in a sense, I'm "paying" for them, but keep in mind - they were all going to be burned at a bonfire anyway, so it's not like they were worth anything to me...

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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 6  

Mmmm...i could get rid of those Spawn issues that only waste space....
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John Dallaire
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 7  

Mike O'Brien -

I've got Eraserhead on DVD. I've got Bubba Ho-Tep, too.

What I don't have in my posession are the two books that just got released YESTERDAY, because of short-sighted "business" people.

The solution isn't to walk away, the solution is to come up with another way.

My girlfriend and I are knee-deep in several projects right now. We're working on several treatments for web/self-published comics. She's got her teaching career, and I've got my illustration career. We've also got a pretty kick-ass business plan to open a coffee shop/newstand/comic shop.

The plan is to get all those returnable magazines in there, and include in the mix as many of the returnable comics as we can get, filling in all the gaps we can with comics ordered from Diamond, as well as titles supplied by smaller publishers and distributors, directly. Think the Border's or Barnes and Noble Cafe squooshed together with the magazine stand part of the store.

We're going to allow and even ENCOURAGE people to buy their coffee and their muffin and sit down and read whatever they want off the racks. Whether we paid for it on a non-returnable basis or not.

Now, of those readers, some will become buyers. And some will become buyers of things that they would never, ever read, becaue they wouldn't be caught dead in a comic book shop.

Talk to any GM at one of the big-box bookstores...the profit center of the bookstore is the cafe. So much more margin is made by selling the consumables than is made by selling the books and magazines.

Now, this is the best part...any comics that are purchased non-returnable  that get "damaged" and are no longer sellable, can be collected over time and then sold at cost, or donated to local libraries/hospitals/charities/etc. And the best part is, that those donations get turned into deductions for the whole cafe. And the ones that  are too soiled to donate or sell, get destroyed. And that's a deduction. And the ones that are sold at a loss...well, the difference  is also a deduction...a cost of doing business.

Business - the one thing that the majority of the comic shops (that I've seen) claim to be in, yet understand so little of. The entire idea that once you buy it you're going to have to either sell it or eat it is so completely off-base...yet that's the way I see these shops operating...like they're kids with a five dollar allowance that they're trying to budget, rather than a business with cash inflow and outflow. If the comics aren't making the nut, then add magazines. Add toys. Add card games. Add garments. Add food. Add seating. Move locations and add outdoor seating - make it a place that people want to go to, rather than a place that they have to get to on, oh my god, it's Wednesday, if I don't get there NOW they'll be all out of what I want...Have a movie night once a week. Have a slumber party. Create a book club. Add drawing sessions. Hell, add lottery tickets if you have to...turn the entire damn comic shop into something new entirely, make it into a pop-culture version of 7-11... but whatever you do, don't frustrate your customers and don't let them leave empty-handed. And stop expecting your customers to make your life easy...thrill your customers and make them excited to come in...Expose your wares to a new audience, and grow your business. Stop playing to the cheap seats.

That's what we're planning on doing.

John Dallaire
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 8  

Let's not forget that when JB started art chores on JLA and Action, monthly sales went up be about 15,000 copies per month!  If sales are the gauge of success, then JB should avoid second tier stuff like Demon and Doom Patrol, and stick to the established characters.

But I doubt that sales figures are all that JB focuses on in life.  With Gail Simone writing Atom, I predict it will post similar numbers to her Birds of Prey series, and be around for a good long while, without necessarily being a Top 10 seller.

And is the Page 2-3 spread in Atom #1 a portion of the new JLA?  It fits with all the silhouettes provided on the promotional cover.

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Cesar Madarro
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 9  

Dear Sir

If Marvel can not be an option to improve the situation, maybe only big and popular ongoing DC series could solve the problem.

Marvel would be my first choice, but if that is not possible, I'd just be happy with an ongoing Generations book. Inks always by John Byrne, of course.

If there is one thing that didn't seem perfect to me when Mr Byrne drew Doom Patrol and BOTD (one of my favorite books in this decade after all), it is other people were inking his stuff instead of him.

Who decides who inks Mr Byrne's works?

I'm sure none of his commissions could look better than they already do if inked by someone else!

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Mike Bunge
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 10  

"Yeah, as much as I've always enjoyed John Byrne's writing (one of the best ever!), there are certain realities about the current marketplace, and "old school", as much as I hate to say it, isn't the soup of the day."

 

Again, speaking as a complete non-professional who doesn't have even 1% of JB's understanding of comic storytelling, I notice that he's incorporated non-linear storytelling into GENERATIONS, DOOM PATROL, BOTD and even the new ATOM.  I'm not sure the current comic audience can really handle that.

I could be mean and say they're not bright enough to follow it, but that's not fair.  Today's comic audience seems to mostly care about two things - "big ideas" and soap operish character drama.  What they don't care about is plot.  When you take an audience that doesn't pay attention to how the story gets from A to B to C to D and give them a story that goes from C to B to D to A or even B to A to C to D...I'm not sure they can keep up with it.

Mike

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John Bodin
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 11  

LOVED Atom #1 -- kudos to Gail for a GREAT story with a great intro to the new character (both here and in BNW), and kudos to JB for some stellar work on the artwork and visual storytelling chores.

One question for JB:  What's up with the Green Lantern costume?  Looks similar to your "Generations" Green Lantern costume (which was an homage to one of Gil Kane's "interim" costumes for Hal Jordan, I beleive).  Did Gail ask for a slightly different GL costume, or were you taking artistic liberties (the latter seems very unlike you, since you usually go out of your way to keep your characters "on-character").

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Clay Adams
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Posted: 07 July 2006 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 12  

Really enjoyed this issue and the preview in Brave New World.  I had some minor quibbles (would've liked to have seen the Atom in costume, for instance), but I enjoyed the characters, dialogue, and art enough to come back for more. 

Oh - and I LOVED that two page spread of the JLA.  Made me want to see John on Green Lantern. 

Well done, team.

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