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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 1  

I'm going to start a new thread for this old subject, so that my comments for today won't get scattered across the half dozen threads that have inspired them.

A short while ago, made curious by a couple of comments elsewhere in the Forum today, I went poking around on a few other message boards, looking for the latest diatribes against the monster that is John Byrne. (I use the word diatribes deliberately -- more in a moment.)

I didn't find much that was new, either in content or chronology, but I did find a lot of stuff that underlined for me something I have spent much of my career desperately trying to convince myself was not true: some fans are really stupid. Now -- I still cling like a drowining man to the thought that these stupid fans represent the minority, but they are a minority with a very loud voice, courtesy of the InterNet. Several loud voices, courtesy of fake screen names.

One of the recurrent themes in the Byrne Bashing is that I am a "racist". This would seem to be a term very popular with people who have been lucky enough in their lives never to have actually met a real racist. Figuring out where this charge comes from, tho, is kind of tricky. If we stick to the facts, at least. But sticking to the facts is optional on the InterNet. Thus we are treated to posts from people who claim to have stopped buying my work because of my "racist diatribes". (Told you there was a reason I used that word.)

Now, when I see the phrase "racist diatribes" connected to myself and/or my work, I can come to only one conclusion: the person using the phrase does not understand the definition of either word. At this point, I suppose, I could whip out my resumé as a demonstration of how I am anything but a "racist", but that resumé is already out there for anyone to see. Anyone, that is, who actually wants to look at the body of work I have produced in the last 30 years or so. But that's too much like homework, and in situations like this it is far easier (and more fun!) to quote the previous poster(s) and not bother to cloud the issues with facts. Especially since those previous posters have not been so inclined, either.

A recurrent motif: "Byrne said thus-and-such" is offered by Poster A, who gives us something I didn't say, or something that someone else said, or something that is taken out of context. The last is the favorite. As with "Byrne uses the word 'nigger'." Yes, I do -- to say it's a bad word. As with, for instance, when I used it in the Hate Monger story I did in FANTASTIC FOUR. Had to get special permission to use it, it fact. Curiously, at that time, nobody called me a "racist" for using it. Nobody, for instance, deduced that I was cleverly placing this word into the mouth of the villain so that I could reveal my own thoughts on the subject. (That kind of skewed thinking would need a few years, as when I gave Phoebe Marrs a line of anti-abortion dialog in NAMOR, and was immediately excoriated for putting "Pro-Life garbage" into my stories, thus revealing my own stand on the subject. Since my own stand is very loudly Pro-Choice, and since, once again, the words came from the mouth of one of the villains, one would not think such "deductions" would be made. But that was an early warning sign of a distinct sea change in fandom.)

The InterNet has accelerated this change, until now it perhaps outweighs every other kind of post combined. Basically, people love to be offended. For themselves, or on behalf of someone else. What I have dubbed "red sweater syndrome".*

This brings us back to those stupid fans. Stupid, because they will follow the herd, refusing to think for themselves (assuming they are able) and repeating like good little parrots what they read online or heard at their local comicbook shop. Truth is not required, only something that will allow them to wear their red sweaters. Or, stupid because, apparently, I have been a racist all along, and they have not noticed. They did not notice when I was drawing Power Man. They did not notice when Danny and Misty were romantically connected. They did not notice when Storm became leader of the X-Men. They did not notice when I drew Rhodey as a black guy. Etc, etc. right down to the present day. They are really, really, stupid, because, hey! I'm a racist, and they never noticed. BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!

Or --- I'm not a racist. Nah --- that can't be! It's on the InterNet, so it must be true.



*"Anybody who wears a read sweater is an idiot"

"I have never worn a red sweater and I resent being
called an idiot!"

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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 2  

Well said Mr. Byrne....now all the fanboys are gonna say "Mr.Byrne called us stupids"!

Now, i think...they have the "Drama Queen" sindrome!



Edited by Juan Jose Colin Arciniega on 30 June 2006 at 2:43pm
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 3  

"This brings us back to those stupid fans."

Adult comic book fans don't seem to be the most intelligent, well-rounded of lads and lassies. I include myself in that group.
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Matthew Hansel
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 4  

I am convinced that in some sad, stupid way, all of the BYRNE detractors are, in their hearts of hearts, JEALOUS of JB and his position in the industry and, most importantly, of his TALENT.

When you are extraordinarily good at what you do, people get jealous...way jealous...especially when you remain consistent and constant in your work.

It is a shame, though, that these people are destroying the hobby and industry they so profess to love by supporting books that are constantly produced late (because the creators are "growing roses); are totally into the "gimmicks" offered up as "new and exciting" ideas proposed by many companies; support talent that in NO WAY are professional in either their behavior or work ethic; and set out to destroy the careers and reputations of those people whose work they do not like.

What upsets me, probably even more, is that the public perception of a "comic book fan" is EXACTLY what these basement dwellers and microphalics demonstrate each and every time they post to an InterNet message board, and this is done at the expense of all of us who read comics and THINK and have LIVES and so forth and so on.  I mean, I have civilian friends who, to this day, still believe that ALL comic book fans, and even professionals, are EXACTLY like "Comic Book Guy" on the SIMPSONS.  (One friend, when I brought her to the Chicago Comicon a few years back, even remarked how "normal" many of the creators looked/acted...especially considering their "fans"...).

But, at the end of the day, if these idiots destory what remains of the comic book industry and while they are pissing on the graves of what was once a fun, vibrant, creative outlet/industry/hobby, while they do that with GLEE, I hope that the emptiness that is their lives consumes them and their ilk and that a great hell is thrust upon them and they spend what remains of their lives in pain, suffering and agony.

May a SPECTRE like wrath haunt them all the days of their shallow, empty, hallow lives!

MPH

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Matthew Hansel
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 5  

Speak for yourself, Joe.

MPH

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Mikael Bergkvist
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 6  

You and Chris kick-started X-men, which has become a symbol for stuff not so much related with racism.. so it's kinda wierd..
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Mike O'Brien
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Official JB Historian

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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 7  

All this because of: 

1) A drawing that Byrne probably didn't do - (he penciled the cover, yet the drawing is in ink, it's not his style, etc and so on...)

2) A remark that is in line with what Malcolm X said - that it's a sad commentary when people destroy thier natural beauty to look like their oppressors.

You're right, though - the people making these outrageous claims should try learning a thing or two about racism before tossing that word around. 

Not that they really believe it, I'm sure, it's just a word they use in their sad little campaigns....

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Brian Hunt
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 8  

As a black fan of JBs for more than 20+ years, I hearby denounce any claims that John Byrne is a racist.  I make this statement with full knowledge of real racism having been born and raised in the deep, deep, South (where one year the big controversy was an integrated prom In the 1990s).  Now move along, nothing to see here. 

Brian

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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 9  

I actually think that they resent the fact that -their- chosen favourite [creator*] isn't able to maintain the work rate or even a regular rate as JB can.

They want to dipute that JB as worthy of his title -and- that he has had his day, hence the "old stuff is better" bleating. As these arguements breakdown (and surely they must as JB continues to work it simply proves that the New stuff is still in demand) they need to fire their shells at less tangible aspects, like the fact that "JB ate the hamster of a friend of a friend" or that "at one Con JB burned a kids comics" et al.

There is a reason that "HOT" artists are "COOL" [shruggs at the hep words we devise] and JB is not marketed as a "HOT" artist. ("HOT" is used like "They're going like 'Hot' Crossed Buns". Like they are here one minute and not the next, adding to the whole sporadic (I want to say nomadic here for some reason) nature or as they like to market it "EVENTS". So terms like "Growing Roses" emerge to put a positive spin on what is really unprofessionalism.) JB is -everything- these fanatics wish their guy/gal was!

* I'd have said artist but as "HOT" artist these days are so unreliable it would appear that Writers are more likely to have regular work out there.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 10  

JB, your problem with stupid "fans" and accusations of racism reminds me of the attempts to ban HUCKLEBERRY FINN because of the use of the word "nigger."

Russell Baker in the NYTimes back in 1982 wrote:
 QUOTE:
The people they [Huck and Jim] encounter are drunkards, murderers, bullies, swindlers, lynchers, thieves, liars, frauds, child abusers, numbskulls, hypocrites, windbags and traders in human flesh. All are white. The one man of honor in this phantasmagoria is black Jim, the runaway slave. ''Nigger Jim,'' as Twain called him to emphasize the irony of a society in which the only true gentleman was held beneath contempt.

The people who want to label Mark Twain a racist obviously are too stupid to understand what they (seem to) read. It's apparent that the people out to get you, JB, are just as stupid in the same way.

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | 11  

The current charges of racism at JB from his detractors stem from, basically, two things: The comments he made on Latinas dying their hair blonde, and a silly drawing in the UPC box on the original art for an "Uncanny X-Men" cover from nearly 30 years ago.

These pathetic people that constantly seek to demonize and rag on about JB all the friggin time were just looking for anything they could find to tar and feather him, and took those two things above out of context and ran with them.

One board on the net is practically the Anti-Byrne Forum, they post so much about JB, and always negatively. Sad, really.

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Jonathan Watkins
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Posted: 30 June 2006 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 12  

I don't have anything to add to the subject of trolls and the nonsense that has been going on in different forums.  No matter what is written to try and diffuse it, it will not be deterred.  However, I'd like to go on record as saying that absolutely no comicbook professional contributes to his fanbase on the internet as much as JB.  There is nobody out there who offers the sheer volume of pencil scans, daily doodles, commissions and ideas as the man who owns this site-- and all for FREE.  Ask JB any question about his process, about tips for how he does a certain thing, about the history of the industry or any other topic and he gives you the straight dope.  If that isn't the definition of a man who cares about his profession and the people who have been his fans, then I don't know what is.

I for one appreciate the hell out of it.

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