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Topic: Q for JB on LEGENDS #6 and DC Continuity (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 1  

There was some really thrilling stories from that time. JB's Superman, Perez's Wonder Woman. I enjoyed the "Joke League". I didn't read DC before then, so the continuity problems didn't affect my enjoyment, until years later when somehow these problems became featured themes in the stories (Hawkworld, Zero Hour, etc.)

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Bill Lukash
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 2  

I remeber not liking the story in Legends, but digging JBs art.  I was sort of bummed out Macro-Man bit the dust right away.  I thought he was cool looking.
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Steven Huie
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 3  

Brimstone was BADASS....
and release the Warhounds!!!
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John Mietus
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 4  

 Greg McPhee wrote:
Same goes for the Legion of Super-Heroes.


The Legion never did recover.
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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 5  

[Nodding in agreeance with John Mietus]
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 6  

As a non-Legion follower, Can I ask why not?

I understand Superboy inspired and was a member of the Legion. But wasn't there a way just to move forward, cite a different person as the inspiration, and ignore references to Superboy? Sure back issues would have him, but so what?

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 7  

Same argument could be made for, say I dunno, MJ, yet you're arguing the opposite there. In one instance, you're saying you'd drop ASM in a heartbeat if MJ was written out as though the marriage never existed, yet here you're thinking people should just "move forward" when Superboy is taken out of the mix. Strange...
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 8  

I was asking a legitimate question.

 The Legion, by all accounts, was ruined by Crisis/Man of Steel. I rarely hear something different

 There was no Superboy in Man of Steel and therefore he could not be in Legion of Superheroes or inspire them

  and I am wondering why that had to be so. I didn't read it, in part because everyone always said that the Legion was a mess post-crisis.  I am just wondering why it had to be that way.  I am not saying people should or should not be upset by the absence of Superboy.  Just curious whether that alone or other factors runied the Legion.

With so many characters it would seem like the absence of one, even one as important as the inspiration, would not necessarily ruin the team and make it super confusing especially given they take place in the future.  and yet, everyone says  it was ruined.

I wasn't saying anyone should move on or forget Superboy existed, just why did the Legion hinge on that part, if indeed it did.   If people wanted to drop the Legion because of Superbpy being removed, or Superman, or DC in general, I have no problem with that. That said, me personally, I have different rules for Marvel and DC anyway, and Spider-man is a special case to me



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 02 May 2006 at 3:15pm
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 9  

Sure, you were asking a legitimate question, Rob, but it was followed with this: "But wasn't there a way just to move forward, cite a different person as the inspiration, and ignore references to Superboy? Sure back issues would have him, but so what?"

So basically, because you admittedly have no attachment to these characters, everyone should just ignore Superbody and so what if they don't like it?  Given your stance on the Spider-Man marriage, this stinks highly of hypocrisy.



Edited by Roger A Ott II on 02 May 2006 at 12:20pm
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 10  

That's not what I was saying.  If it read that way, I worded  it wrong. I was talking more from a storytelling perspective than a fan attachment perspective.  I understand why the X-men, say were muddled completely and how that could be confusing. I do not know, not because I disagree but literally do not know, how the Legion was.

I was just trying to ask, how come the Legion had to be ruined post crisis? Presumably by the absence of Superboy? Were there other factors? Was he that crucial to them (and admittedly he was the inspiration) that they effectivelty could not function if Superboy didn't exist?

  Let's say Hank Pym was erased for continuity. he helped found and named the Avengers I believe. But the Avengers could go on in the future without him.  Back issues would still have him, and that's something of a problem, but future issues wouldn't depend on Hank Pym existing.  And stories talking about the beginning could have someone else name them and perhaps someone else help found them. It wouldn't mean the Avengers were impenetrable or ruined.  or even Wonder Woman. She now did not found the Justice League (I think), so they just retroactively say Black Canary did (I think).  and past adventures show black Canary no matter what the back issues say. It didn't necessarily ruin the Justice League.  Even the Justice Society, though somewhat weakened maybe as a concept, were fit in to Earth 1.  Or how the Chameleon now really wasn't a commie.

So why was the Legion ruined?  I am not saying they weren't and I am not saying Superboy wasn't crucial, but I don't know enough to know why they couldn't have been salvaged (albeit there is a reboot now). Why couldn't they been inspired by superheroes in general or the Teen Titans if it is crucial youth inspired them?

and of course I would care about characters I have an emotional attachment to. That's kind of the definition. But I never meant fans should move on and forget about it.



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 02 May 2006 at 3:18pm
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 11  

 John Mietus wrote:
The Legion never did recover.

Until very recently, IMO.

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Mike Farley
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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 12  

The problem was that it wasn't as simple as removing Superboy from the roster and moving on.    There was also Supergirl to consider.  And several other Legionaires were tied directly to the Superboy-man mythos (Mon-El for example).  It was kinda hard for an outsider to see it looking at LEGION as it existed around the time of CRISIS, but Superboy was an intregal part of the team in its early years.  He was a lot more than just an inspirational figure.  Simply removing him was like pulling out a single card from a house of cards. 

JB and Paul Levitz came up with a solution for Superboy.  It wasn't perfect and didn't help at all with the Supergirl problem, but it worked well enough.

Unfortunately a few years later an edict came down from the Superman office that Legion couldn't use ANY Superman ties.  So there was a mini-reboot and the pocket-universe Superboy was wiped out of Legion history.  Mon-El gained the silly code-name Valor and was awkwardly shoehorned in as the Legion's inspirational figure.  The newly created Laurel Gand became a Supergirl stand in.

Most of the changes could have worked if Legion had gone with a full scale reboot at that point and just started over.  But they didn't do that and fans were left trying to catch up and figure out how the new elements fit into continuity.  It didn't help that the mini-reboot happened just 4 issues into the "5 years later"re-launch of the series.

Eventually we get to Zero Hour and the Legion is given the full re-boot treatment.  Started over from square one.    This series started out pretty strong  for the first few years then fell apart.  It got better again when Dan Abnett and Ady Lanning came abaord as writers.  Then it got cancelled too.

And now we have Mark Waid's version which is yet another re-boot.  After a year and a half I'm still not sure how I feel anout this one.

In hindsight, I'm not sure it was CRISIS or MAN OF STEEL that dealt the gravest blow to the Legion, but rather Paul Levitz leaving the book.  His presence protected the book from the editorial whim that eventually crippled the book.  After all no-one's going to tell the vice president of the company that he can't use Superboy...
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