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Olav Bakken
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Joined: 15 June 2014
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| Posted: 08 May 2015 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 1
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Hopefully this is the right forum to post in. It's about the movies but also about the comics.
Just some thoughts about how Marvel's mutants have changed during the years. If anyone has any corrections or something to add, don't hesitate.
Mutants in the Marvel universe these days are hated and despised because they are humans. But that is today.
Mutants like Nightcrawler was feared because of his look, not because of he was a mutant.
I remember when Kitty Pryde meet X-Men for the first time before she is aware she is a mutant herself. She had a big smile on her face and stars in her eyes, and asked Storm for an autograph. The X-Men were superheroes like Avengers, and had adventures all over the world and universe. Beast and Angel were mutants that were members of non-mutant groups like Champions and Avengers. The fact that they were mutants was a non-issue amongst the other team members and people in general.
There were mutants, superhumans that gained their powers through radiation or chemicals, wizards and warlocks, inhumans, robots and cyborgs, aliens and gods and supernatural beings. And most of them got along just fine (even if the public was not aware of the inhumans' existence).
Then there was Days of Future Past. A kind of "what if" story, about what would happen if a mutant hating politician got killed and therefore became a martyr for his case. Kitty travelled back in time and prevented this from happening, and everything went back to normal. The politician still had an agenda against mutants, but he had to work with his plans in secret without the public being aware of it.
In Uncanny X-Men #169 the mutants are portrayed as outsiders and pariahs more clearly than ever before after we meet the Morlocks, who are hiding from society.
And then in 1984 two things happened. There was Secret Wars, where Johnny Storm is being healed by an alien healer. She looks into his mind and learn who the others from Earth are. The villains, the allies, those he considers as close friends and family, and those who does not fully trust; the X-Men. When I was reading that I had no idea why he mistrusted the X-Men because I don't know if any superheroes in those days cared if superpowers was caused by a mutation or something else.
Then it was the return of Rachel Summers, who travelled physically back in time. By doing so, the world she left behind was introduced to the present day Marvel universe she arrived to. She could hear the thoughts of normal humans around her, feeling their hate against "muties". Which was a little odd because Jean Grey or Professor X had never been shown to pick up such thoughts from random people. And punks started to spray graffiti on brick walls, like "Muties go home", and Kitty was almost killed by her classmates for being mutant.
In 1986 X-Factor was introduced, where mutants pretended to be mutant hunters so they could save other mutants from the persecution of ignorant humans who hated them.
Magneto became more like Hitler or some other extremist, talking about genetic superiority and such.
And this continued for some years, and then Grant Morrison took over as a writer. Then it became clear that humans hated mutants because they were afraid they would take over the world, and cause the extinction of ordinary humans. And it really looked like that was going to happen for a while. Which caused a genocide on millions of mutants who lived in Genosha. I don't know if it was intentional, but it made me think of Israel (or maybe it was a reference to Hiroshima and Nagasaki).
In the meantime the first theatrical movies had started to be released. So far all the movies have mainly focused on a single topic; using the mutants as a metaphor and symbol of hate, suppression and minorities. Bad mutants consider themselves superior and the future. Good mutants wish to live in peace. Humans hate them because they are different. Mutants came to represent homophobia, religious intolerance, racism, anti-Semitism, sexism and extremism. So it was not really that surprising that the first comic book story they decided to adapt was Days of Future Past, or that the next one was Age of Apocalypse. They are dealing with the same topics as all the previous X-Men movies.
And that's where we are today. Some of the content in the movies have influenced the comic, and according to rumors the comic book mutants are now being transported to another planet and leaves the arena to the inhumans.
Not that I mind some important topics being included in a story now and then, but I must admit that I wish the cinematic version of the mutants would show a little more variation. It would be sad if moviegoers not familiar with the older comics assumed the X-Men was just a metaphor for bigotry, racism and hate mongering, and nothing more than that.
If the rumors are true, maybe it's not such a bad thing they are leaving the planet. That could mean a new start and fresh ideas.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08 May 2015 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 2
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"...Mutants in the Marvel universe these days are hated and despised because they are humans. But that is today...."
I'm sure you meant because they "aren't humans"?
If so, that's been the case since practically the beginning of the series:
"...Magneto became more like Hitler or some other extremist, talking about genetic superiority and such...."
Again, this was done in the earliest issues:
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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 08 May 2015 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 3
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Magneto wants to enslave the human race. Changing that
ruined the character for me.
I also don't mind some heroes not fully trusting the X-
Men because they might see a thin line between them and
the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. They're wrong -- just
like the heroes who think Spider-Man is shady are wrong
-- and in a team-up would usually learn to respect the
X-Men.
Marvel has de-uniqued and lessened so many of the
characters and concepts that Lee/Kirby/Ditko made great
in the 1960s: Spider-Man, Iron Man, Hulk, and perhaps
most tragically the X-Men because they are the least
recognizable to me.
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Olav Bakken
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Joined: 15 June 2014
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| Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 4
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Yes, I meant "not humans".
The old comics may have had some of references of Nazism (which would be familiar to both Lee and Kirby experienced the war less then two decades earlier), but I don't have the impression it was an ever present subplot as we see today. After Rachel Summers arrived this timeline, the mutant hate became an ever present subplot always there, and now and then brought out in the spotlight.
(Lee admitted he created the mutants because he was tired of coming up with a backstory and origin for each new character with superpowers.)
With the exception of a few early issues of the Lee and Kirby run, and some issues of the original team with Havoc and Polairs onboard, the old issues have never been translated and published in my language. Instead it is the team that was created with Giant-Size X-Men #1 in 1975 I'm familiar with. By then X-Men was pretty much just another superhero teams, despite some major differences. All the issues I have read never used the mutant hate as a backdrop before Days of Future Past. When later storylines suddenly transforms the whole society, turning every average person into a hate monger, it was a whole new direction, and it has continued that road for a long time now. This concept now is the dominating factor in the X-Men universe.
It remains to see if the ihumans will be treated in a similar way.
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Olav Bakken
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| Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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Stephen Robinson:
Yes, Magneto has gone through some changes through the years. From an evil mutant, a teacher and to a terrorist.
As for distrust against mutants, it was just new to me that Human Torch and others did not trust them. I can not remember I have read any Marvel comic prior to that where they are skeptical against them. Maybe in the early 60s when superhero teams met each others for the first time, but before Secret Wars they were all familiar with each others. But these were established characters. Of course new ones who did not know any personally could have some thoughts about it.
If I would guess, I would say the reason for retconning characters is that new writers have their own ideas they would love to try if given the opportunity and editors who needs new storylines even if it means changing something that is already established.
If you are rebooting the whole comic book universe, that's something else.
I also have a sense that there is a wish to get away from the old concept of giving humans superpowers through radiation and chemicals, as seen in Ultimate Marvel. But they are also doing it in the original universe. Spider-Man's powers in the Ezekiel storyline is explained as the influence of a spider god. Cloak and Dagger was influenced by something supernatural. Sasquatch is no longer the product of radiation either. It could be a result of the present popularity of science fiction and fantasy, and not to mention computer games. Powers are explained either by convincing scientific concepts like genetics or magic. The content has also changed, it has become more mature and serious. But that could partly be nostalgia talking.
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Matt Hawes
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| Posted: 08 May 2015 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | 6
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"...All the issues I have read never used the mutant hate as a backdrop before Days of Future Past...."
It was used a few times before that storyline, but I think that element of the X-Men became more prominent after "Days of Future Past." Remember, the entire reason the Sentinels were created was to rid humanity of the mutants. There were a few Sentinels stories before DOFP, and other stories before that storyline touched on humans distrust of mutants.
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Olav Bakken
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| Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 7
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True, even if everything seemed to return to normal again after Days of Future Past, there were some glimpses of this elements when we meet the morlocks, in Secret Wars and at last the introduction of Rachel Summers in the "real" timeline, as mentioned in the first post.
After that, it gradually escalated to new heights.In the old days there were individuals who wanted to wipe out the mutants. But what happened later was that the whole society started to hate mutants, with organizations dedicated to their destruction, similar to what jews in Germany was exposed to before WW2. It was suddenly socially accepted to express your prejudice and negative feelings about mutants in public.
Individuals disliking certain superheroes is nothing new. Just look at how much Jonah Jameson dislikes Spider-Man, and probably many of the readers of Daily Bugle. But the hate was rarely if ever organized like what we would later see in the X-Men universe. In the image you posted Xavier is reading an article in a newspaper, written by a single individual who is worried what the future might bring. Today this single individual is represented by society as a whole.
Also, in those early days it did not always matter what happened in a story. Just like Casper the Friendly Ghost, who is always lonely in the beginning of a cartoon but gets friends in the end, is once more lonely in the next cartoon. In the early 60s a superhero team could experience that people on the street was throwing rocks at them in one issue, and in the next issue everything was forgotten and they were praised when they saved the city once more. After all, this was a time when Iceman could actually use his powers to create icecream out of thin air and villains were often evil for no other reasons than that they were villains, and villains are supposed to be evil. Later the comics became a less juvenile and more for everybody of every age. These days it feels like they are trying to be a little too mature sometimes, like they now and then forget they are actually dealing with superheroes and humans able to run through walls, teleport to other dimensions or survive in outer space without spacesuit.
Edited by Olav Bakken on 08 May 2015 at 9:32pm
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Dale Lerette
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| Posted: 09 May 2015 at 6:00am | IP Logged | 8
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I think Matt is right. This theme of mutant-hatred seems to have been with the X-Men since it's inception.
Admittedly it may have become more pronounced after Days of Future Past. But I think that's part of the comic book medium "growing up" as the fans of the comics became artists and writers of the comics they loved as kids.
There's been more of a push toward adult themes since the 90's, I noticed anyway. And I think the topic of "mutant hatred" has grown in proportion with the push toward reaching adult readers. I stopped reading comics in the 90's probably in part because of this push.
* Edit I think the push really started with The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen, in the mid 80's. But I think it came full swing in the early 90's
Edited by Dale Lerette on 09 May 2015 at 6:18am
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Olav Bakken
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| Posted: 09 May 2015 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 9
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I didn't exactly claim it was wrong. But for most of it's run, before these things started to change, it was mostly absent.
Like I said, I never noticed any of it in all the comics I read about the new team of X-Men, with Colossus, Storm and Banshee and so on, or the few issues of the old team. Neither Jean Grey or the professor seemed to pick up the same thoughts from random people all around them like Rachel Summers did when she travelled back in time. All her telepathy could pick up was "mutie this" and "mutie that".
It seems a few issues have brought it up in the early days and then moved on with other concepts. Then it was dormant for a long time before being mentioned again. Would Kitty Pryde behave like she met a group of superstars if that story had been written today?
And were there any stories in the past where mutants had to deal with hate from the whole society on a daily basis? The worries may have been of a different kind, but was the hate itself that different from what other superheroes (like Avengers or Fantastic Four) risked being exposed to from time to time in those days? I'm asking because with a very few exceptions, I have not read these older comics.
It is probably correct that comics today are made by those who loved reading them as kids. But when reading the old comics again as adults, they may find them to be a little juvenile for their more sophisticated tastes, so they decide they want to write stories they can enjoy reading and creating also as adults.
While mutants has to deal with discrimination, other superheroes now has to deal with the superhero registration act which caused Civil War. Today's superheroes has to stand up against social issues, politics and bureaucracy just as much as villains and alien invasions. In other words, no matter if it is a newspaper or a comic you open, it's the same reality and issues dealing with pollution, racism, war and religion that meets you. Nothing wrong with using these as ingredients in a story, but when they become dominating factors that defines a superhero universe it's a different matter. I know, a little exaggeration perhaps, but many superhero comics no longer offer the same kind of escapism as it did before. If that's how these comics were from the start, it's fine. But when older comics have changed into something almost unrecognizable it does feel like something has been lost.
The mutant hate would have made more sense if mutants were the only humans on the planet having superpowers. But they are not. As seen in the original comic book version of Days of Future Past, but not mentioned in the movie, it's also about who will give rise to mutant children. Or as it would be explained today; who are born with the X-gene?
Humans fear mutants will replace ordinary people, comparing it to modern homo sapiens replacing Neanderthals. But also heroes with superpowers like Fantastic Four, and even normal humans, will give birth to mutants from time to time. Mutants are not invaders from an alien race. They are the children, the next generation. Younger generations will always replace older generations no matter if they have superpowers or not.
What if someone in the real world was born that was much more intelligent than others, or had the ability to see UV-light? Parents would be proud of their offspring. In the comic book world, there already are non-mutants with the same powers as many mutants. If that's not a problem, then what is the problem if they are born with them? If they hate them because they fear their powers, they should hate all who have them, both mutants and non-mutants. Also, back then mutants were so rare that you knew all of them by name. So few there would be no reason to fear they would replace ordinary humans. But later, especially with the introduction of morlocks and issues after that, they started to increase in numbers and really did seem to become the rule rather than the exception. They became so many it was no longer possible to give them specific powers or personality. Instead we saw mutants with no special abilities beyond a weird body and skin color.
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Paul Simpson Simpson
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| Posted: 09 May 2015 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 10
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The problem really began when the writers decided EVERYBODY The X-Men met or had ever met ended up being mutants.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 09 May 2015 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 11
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The problem really began when the writers decided EVERYBODY The X-Men met or had ever met ended up being mutants.•• Or witches…
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Eric Sofer
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| Posted: 09 May 2015 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 12
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Oh, if only mutants were really witches. Then the solution would be easy...
BURN THEM! (If they weigh the same as a duck, anyhow...)
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Topic Closed)
